Passenger Trains > Commentary on any new long distance fleet

From the president of Louisiana ARP, John Sita:

"By the time the new cars get here much of the existing fleet will be over 50 years old. Amfleet IIs date to 1977 and the original Superliners to 1979 or so. Amtrak waited at least ten years too late to order national network cars, and the condition of these cars will likely be far worse than what they are now. My hope is that Amtrak will commence one last heavy rebuild of the fleet, but indications are so far they have no intentions to do that.

It will likely take 5-7 years after the cars are ordered until they are received and accepted. That puts deliveries into the 2029-2031 range at best, possibly further off than that. The cars are obsolete now and will be more so into the next decade. Think about Amtrak starting out in 1971 with cars only built in the 1920s, heavyweights with antiquated electrical systems and no air conditioning with tiny toilet rooms that flushed straight onto the tracks."

GenePoon Wrote:
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> From the president of Louisiana ARP, John Sita:
>
> "By the time the new cars get here much of the
> existing fleet will be over 50 years old. Amfleet
> IIs date to 1977 and the original Superliners to
> 1979 or so. Amtrak waited at least ten years too
> late to order national network cars, and the
> condition of these cars will likely be far worse
> than what they are now. My hope is that Amtrak
> will commence one last heavy rebuild of the fleet,
> but indications are so far they have no intentions
> to do that.
>
> It will likely take 5-7 years after the cars are
> ordered until they are received and accepted. That
> puts deliveries into the 2029-2031 range at best,
> possibly further off than that. The cars are
> obsolete now and will be more so into the next
> decade. Think about Amtrak starting out in 1971
> with cars only built in the 1920s, heavyweights
> with antiquated electrical systems and no air
> conditioning with tiny toilet rooms that flushed
> straight onto the tracks."

5 to 7 years is highly optimistic. My guess is 10 to 15 years, and they will be troublesome pieces of junk like everything else Amtrak bought lately. Unless the superliners have unfixable structural problems, the best idea would be to do a gut rehab on them, and run them another 20 years.

Posted from iPhone

The current superliner refurbuishment is more of a light overhaul? Not enough to make much of a difference?

I  know  RPA  Washington is  involved. SURE  they  would  like  coments  from we  riders!!

Great commentary!

Realistically, a heavy rebuild program now is what needs to be done.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Great commentary!
>
> Realistically, a heavy rebuild program now is what
> needs to be done.

This is necessary even with a new order. It will be 15-20 years before the new cars are designed, delivered and reliable.

SanDiegan Wrote:
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> This is necessary even with a new order. It will
> be 15-20 years before the new cars are designed,
> delivered and reliable.

Yep, that is what I meant.

Oregonpaul Wrote:
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> The current superliner refurbuishment is more of a
> light overhaul? Not enough to make much of a
> difference?

It’s not an overhaul at all. It’s just a cosmetic refreshing of carpeting and upholstery. At least the superliner I sleepers got a major overhaul years ago. The superliner II still have the same nasty dirty carpeting on the walls and ceilings as when they were delivered. I would think they could do a huge overhaul on the existing cars a lot cheaper than buying new ones, and a lot faster too. What’s amazing is how fast Amtrak did heritage fleet conversions in the late 70s to mid 80s. That was a huge project and they cranked out hundreds of cars. Now they can’t even manage to wash them anymore. 🙄

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/23 14:00 by alan2955.

What needs to be done is, Management needs to be shown the door before they make more disasterious long term decisions. The rebuild should have already started. Instead of finding answers management will just continue to say "not our fault, labor shortage". 

Sometimes the optimistic nature of this site is really something to lift your spirits...

What a depressingly and poignant post! 
The dire Superliner situation has led to greatly reduced revenue, and a lessening of utility of the long distance trains for the traveling public.

Equipment should have been ordered by 2005 - with the design and manufacturing problem, might just be starting to arrive now.

Gross management failure - they need RR operational experience and pride in their service.

Posted from Android

I have to bring up a subject in this regard about the Viewliners 1 & 2:  

-How are the 50 sleeping cars built about 20+ years ago holding up?   I am not talking about cosmetics, which any regular rebuild cycle at Beech Grove should take care of.  I am talking about their structure, their strength, their comfort. They seem to handle winter weather okay.  My trips on them are few, but I was happy with them.  

-How are the CAF cars holding up, built in the past eight years doing?  (some of them have apparently been stored before any serious usage).  How different are V1 from V2?  I am assuming they are completely mechanically compatible.  

-In spite of CAF's abysmal delivery of V2 cars, I think if Amtrak paid a good price (like $4M or more each), CAF now knows how to build this carbody style.   So give them an order for 150 long distance coaches and 50 lounge cars.  Their plant in NY must be full of dust these days, but it certainly could be up and running relatively quickly.  This order would complete the long distance single-level trains in Viewliner form.  

Amtrak needs several builders to work with; Amtrak needs good coaches for long distance service.  

This is a thoughtful post.  I, for one, do not think it will take 10 years to get the cars.  Too many people are completely defeated these days and are just thinking nothing can ever work, anywhere.  There is always a reason it will not work.  These same folks said Amtrak would not be ordering LD cars.  Now they show that they are and the doomsdayers shift to a new gear.

Amtrak has likely learned a lot by working wtih CAF.  Let's see if maybe, just maybe, they did.

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to bring up a subject in this regard about
> the Viewliners 1 & 2:  
>
> -How are the 50 sleeping cars built about 20+
> years ago holding up?   I am not talking about
> cosmetics, which any regular rebuild cycle at
> Beech Grove should take care of.  I am talking
> about their structure, their strength, their
> comfort. They seem to handle winter weather
> okay.  My trips on them are few, but I was happy
> with them.  
>
> -How are the CAF cars holding up, built in the
> past eight years doing?  (some of them have
> apparently been stored before any serious
> usage).  How different are V1 from V2?  I am
> assuming they are completely mechanically
> compatible.  
>
> -In spite of CAF's abysmal delivery of V2 cars, I
> think if Amtrak paid a good price (like $4M or
> more each), CAF now knows how to build this
> carbody style.   So give them an order for 150
> long distance coaches and 50 lounge cars.  Their
> plant in NY must be full of dust these days, but
> it certainly could be up and running relatively
> quickly.  This order would complete the long
> distance single-level trains in Viewliner
> form.  
>
> Amtrak needs several builders to work with; Amtrak
> needs good coaches for long distance service.  

Flyer92122 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What needs to be done is, Management needs to be
> shown the door before they make more disasterious
> long term decisions. The rebuild should have
> already started. Instead of finding answers
> management will just continue to say "not our
> fault, labor shortage". 

I agree, nice on new LD Equipment but today's Ammanagment is a lot worse than when George Warrington was CEO!

Posted from Android