Passenger Trains > Anemic Lake Shore

Train 449 is currently operating with just three cars - sleeper, lounge, and coach.  This is essentially the same consist it debuted with in October 1975, but within weeks Amtrak added additional coaches to meet demand.  I caught today's pint-sized train at West Warren, MA on my way back from the Amherst Railway Society Show In Springfield.

Dave

---

Short, yes - but great photo!

Rich

Plenty of seats available to BOS and NYP over the next 3 weeks - I guess everyone forgot this is winter and the slow season...

This country has had a winter every year since 1776. LD have only gotten this puny since Anderson came along and riding such trains have become a miserable experience far too often. "Never Again" concept is starting to reveal itself. Lousy food, dirty trains and lack of checked baggage were Anderson's creation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/23 15:48 by joemvcnj.

AND absolutely no marketing of "empty" trains with special fare bargains.  VIA has low mid-week fares to attract folks.  

This has been the winter consist for a while. Nothing new - before Anderson it had a baggage car but no other revenue cars at least not in the last number of years - though they lost the business seats with the switch from a business/cafe to a full lounge - though admittedly the train needed the full lounge - half a cafe of tables was nowhere near enough for 5+ coaches. Outside of winter the Boston section runs with an additional coach. The Boston baggage car use was pretty small before it was removed and I doubt it had much if any impact on ridership. For sleeper passengers the attendent stows bags in an unused room for any passenger that wishes (often the H room if its unsold) and then you can optionally check it right on the platform at Albany for those going further west which I have done. It's really not that big of a deal except that I guess it removes a bit of a buffer from the horn noise. Having been on the Lake Shore a number of times in the last couple years the rooms are always clean, the car attendents are always good, and while it is flexible dining the diner staff does quite a nice job with what they are working with. Additionally OTP on the Lake Shore has improved quite a bit in recent years. My trips were far from a never again experience.

I could see the Boston section running with some more coaches consistantly if the planned added frequencies on this corridor come to fruition.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/23 19:05 by lordsigma.

lordsigma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This has been the winter consist for a while.

I don't think so...have never seen regular operation of less than two coaches, at least since the autumn of 1975.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lordsigma Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This has been the winter consist for a while.
>
> I don't think so...have never seen regular
> operation of less than two coaches, at least since
> the autumn of 1975.
>
> Dave

Correct, nor had the NY section been down to 2 coaches and there are additional frequencies. That is NOT a valid excuse for just one coach on the Boston section.

Gardner's sabotage in action.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/23 03:51 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DavidP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lordsigma Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This has been the winter consist for a while.
> >
> > I don't think so...have never seen regular
> > operation of less than two coaches, at least
> since
> > the autumn of 1975.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Correct, nor had the NY section been down to 2
> coaches and there are additional frequencies. That
> is NOT a valid excuse for just one coach on the
> Boston section.
>
> Gardner's sabotage in action.

Sorry Joe but you're not correct about the Boston section - it's gone down to 1 coach since well before Gardner was CEO. Though the change from a business/cafe to a lounge was recent. I live in the area and have observed 1 coach consistantly this time of year. I rode last year around this time Springfield to Boston - one coach both directions and observed it the last several years. The second coach usually goes away just after New Years and comes back early March. This isn't new - sorry but it's not. The New York section at 2 cars (total 3 cars when combined) was also the consist last winter again between January and March - unsure when that started that could be more recent. Later after my Boston trip I rode out to Denver in March right after they re-added the two coaches (one to New York one to Boston.)

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lordsigma Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This has been the winter consist for a while.
>
> I don't think so...have never seen regular
> operation of less than two coaches, at least since
> the autumn of 1975.
>
> Dave

It's gone down to 1 coach between January (the week after New Years) and early March for the last several years including before the pandemic and when the train still had baggage. It's possible it started with Moorman/Anderson as CEO as that's when I started paying attention but they've been doing it since I've been observing - admittedly shorter than many here but I do live in the area and see this train often even when not looking for it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/23 05:53 by lordsigma.

I have been following this train since 1975.

I did not say Garnder, I said Anderson initially. Garnder is nothing more than a Passive Aggresive version of Anderson and a proven pathological liar when speaking to House T&I to boot. You can make excuses all you like. Few of us take them seriously. Gardner and Harris are killing the business on multiple trains. Don't blame the winter. 

Exceptional image of normally unseen territory.
—Mac

Lordsigma, I too live in the area and have been a frequent observer and occasional off-season rider of 449 for nearly five decades.  At least until the pandemic, the normal consist all year has included two Amfleet II coaches.  I moved from MA to NH in 2020, so now see the train less frequently.  You may be correct about the one coach, but only since Covid-19 suppressed demand in 2020.  Most travel modes are reporting a near return to pre-pandemic levels, but Amtrak continues to cut capacity rather than trying to grow back business through promotion and pricing.

Dave

 

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lordsigma, I too live in the area and have been a
> frequent observer and occasional off-season rider
> of 449 for nearly five decades.  At least until
> the pandemic, the normal consist all year has
> included two Amfleet II coaches.  I moved from MA
> to NH in 2020, so now see the train less
> frequently.  You may be correct about the one
> coach, but only since Covid-19 suppressed demand
> in 2020.  Most travel modes are reporting a near
> return to pre-pandemic levels, but Amtrak
> continues to cut capacity rather than trying to
> grow back business through promotion and pricing.
>
> Dave
>
>  

Just to elaborate - I meant no disrespect and have no doubt you’ve been a longer observer than I. But I know there’s been fairly brief periods of one coach before 2020 - including at least a couple years when they still had a Boston bag which means it’s at least a couple years before COVID. Honestly I don’t remember which is the first year I saw it with one but it was at least 2017/2018 or so (and probably dates back to about when I would have noticed as I’m a fairly new rail enthusiast.) The periods I saw it with one coach were relatively brief - the car usually comes back after several weeks - basically it’s later January/February when I’ve seen it. Last year it was back early March.

Id also elaborate as Joe mentioned Making excuses - I’m not really making excuses or really defending the one coach thing just sharing that I’ve observed it a number of years previously - I do think the baggage thing hasnt had a significant affect on ridership as baggage use always seemed quite light the last couple years it was around - though do acknowledge that it puts the sleeper right behind the locomotive.

Frankly I hoped that when they converted the half business car to a full lounge they’d keep the second coach during this winter period - but alas it seems not to be the case as they dropped it again to one coach. I’m a huge supporter and follower of more service on the B&A and hope not only for more frequencies but improved ridership on 448/449 as a result. I would certainly prefer they not remove the car like anyone else here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/23 14:53 by lordsigma.

Just to dot my Is and cross my Ts I looked back at a thread on another board where I recall discussing this in early 2019 when the lake shore Boston section lost baggage and see discussion on there about how 448/449 was going down to 1 coach Jan Mar. There were correlating remarks by a few posters about how they’d been doing that the last few years (as of 2019.) so I think I have to stand by my recollection.

This and the Capitol Ltd situation is called "Mission Accomplished" following 3 years of "Don't Let a Crisis Go to Waste" and 5 years of "Death by a Thousand Cuts".

The baggage car combo of 49/448 and 449/48 was also  used as a means of checking baggage between New York and Boston. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/23 15:05 by joemvcnj.

Need to draw a line in the sand somewhere, as the Lake SHore Limited's Boston consist was NOT always like this. The specific year or season that it got knocked down - I guess one can continue the pi$$in& match. I tend to believe it was toward the beginning of Anderson's reign in 2017. The Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited did come under attack in prior administrations - removal of sleeper to the NY section, coaches only, removal of baggage car, substitute with a bus, etc. Boardman kept things pretty steady though as I recall, but I'm not a first hand observer next to the tracks.

Granted it, the Boston section was a bus between Boston and Albany for some periods of time too - largely due to track work on the old B&A line but perhaps "extended" conveniently a bit.

Somewhere after Boardman's reign as Amtrak's CEO, the consist came more under attack in the coach section - down from a predictable two Amfleet II's to one. Even right before the pandemic, the NY section of the Lake Shore went down to two Amfleet II coaches with a coach added/subtracted at Albany for the run between NYP and Albany. But West of Albany, Amtrak TRIED, especially in winter months post Jan 5th, to get the consist to just THREE Amfleet II coaches. Lets give Amtrak some credit though - as they did maintain the three Viewliner sleeper count - be it one Boston Sleeper and two NYC Sleepers.

In general, PRIOR to Anderson, the Lake Shore Limited's consist was very robust - at least three Viewliner Sleepers and six Amfleet II coaches west of Albany was commonplace. It carried a larger combined consist than any single level eastern long distance train year-round - including the Silver Meteor. This is what led to issues of what type of "dining car" is carried on this train. Heritage Diners were removed around 2007, then added back on in 2010 because the Amfleet II Lounge AND Amfleet II Diner Lite couldn't take the volume of activity. They were then put back in place when the Heritage Diners were withdrawn and limited to just the Meteor and Crescent. The Viewliner I Diner prototype was commonplace on the Lake Shore after it was restored. Was very much welcomed by staff - as most didn't like the Amfleet II Diner Lite (or those OBS crew that operated the Lake Shore). 

RIght now, Amtrak needs to keep what cars they can rolling on the Lake Shore Limited, as it's also a backup to the anemic Capitol Limited for passengers trying to get from Midwest to Eastern locations (those passengers who find the Capitol Limited sold out that is and then look towards the Lake Shore as a potential option)....... The Lake Shore's eastbound schedule - timing - is horrible though.

Presently, nice of Amtrak to add/subtract a coach between Albany and NYP, while it often limps along west of Albany with just three coaches on a route that doesn't have as many frequencies as what exists between Albany and NYP..... Lake Shore used to be "receive only" or "discharge only" between Albany and NYP. There was an operating reason for this......