Passenger Trains > Agencies Want Amtrak Back in Louisville

 Two Kentucky agencies plan to seek a federal planning grant to study a revival of Amtrak service to Louisville.
The application for the $500,000 grant will be submitted to the Federal Railroad Administration by the Kentuckiana Regional Planning and Development Agency, and Metro Government.

The agencies are eyeing a revival of a route between Indianapolis and Louisville that last hosted Amtrak service in 2003.
That train, the Kentucky Cardinal, was hindered by low ridership and a slow route. It was launched by Amtrak in a bid to capture express business.
The Kentucky Cardinal operated daily between Chicago and Louisville, and combined with the Chicago-Washington Cardinal three days a week in each direction between Chicago and Indianapolis.

The Kentucky agency application is intended to complement a request by the Indiana Department of Transportation for a grant to study additional Amtrak service between Chicago and Indianapolis.
Amtrak has named Chicago-Indianapolis-Louisville as a route that would be developed under its Amtrak Connects US plan. From the akronrrblog

GO FOR IT.   

And do not stop there.  Continue south to NSV, ATL, JAX and Florida!

Let's see. Amtrak bailed out on the Hoosier State. Now we are going to commission studies on how to bring additional service back between those same two cities. So, how many millions for the studies? Then, how many inflated billions in must have capital expenses are the railroads going to demand to bring back the service which was running until not too long ago?

I know, these new "studies" are probably for more service than was there before, but it's more of the same old song and dance, just between different cities.

Seeing this thread just makes me sick in the gut.. How Amtrak handled/mishandled the Hoosier State is where my profound beliefs come from. I saw it first hand. Amtrak showed me without question they are not a railroad here to provide service... Hope these studies are dead on arrival.. Indiana doesn't want this train, and neither does Amtrak... Connect US: A Big Fat Lie!

This rail route was revived than killed off due to the poor trackage that couldn't handle speeds more than 30 to 40 mph. Is there really a lot to study? The study should be as mentioned above - using this route as a catalyst to get further into the southeast and connecting Chicago to Florida - make it a real study. 

Except Amtrak doesn't want to expand service to Florida. They want a short train that they don't have to pay for. Sigh

Posted from Android

Louisville is the 4th largest city in the nation without Amtrak service, population, of 1.4 million.  Nashville is the 3rd largest with a population of 2..0 million   I'm always ticked off when riding the Cardinal and we stop at downtown Thurmond, WV, a population of 5 or 6.  

When the Kentucky Cardinal was running, I made several trips to Chicago.  The track speed between Louisville and Indianapolis was 30 MPH.  Travel time was over 12 hours.  Most people didn't like that but it wasn't really bad.  You could board in Louisville around 8 in the evening, sleep on the way to Chicago, and be somewhat rested for a day in Chicago.  On the way back, you boarded a little before 6 in the evening and arrived at around 8 AM the next morning in Louisville.  Again, you could sleep overnight on the way back.  

CSX doesn't want to deal with a passenger train between Louisville and Seymore, In.  About 5 years ago, they spent millions to upgrade the tracks up to Class 3 or 4 so that they could run freights at a reasonable speed.  They run northbound trains from Louisville to Cincinnati via Seymore.  The southbound trains use the more direct Cincinnati to Louisville route.

Those of us in Louisville can only hope the service returns.

John
 

wa4umr Wrote:
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> When the Kentucky Cardinal was running, I made several trips to Chicago.  The track speed
> between Louisville and Indianapolis was 30 MPH.  Travel time was over 12 hours.  Most people
> didn't like that but it wasn't really bad.  You could board in Louisville around 8 in the evening...

John, sounds like you missed all the real experiences. B/O HVAC and toilets... Came out of CHI that way, and no way to repair at LVL. Didn't you get to ride that last summer when the A/C was B/O trip after trip.. Opened the doors on both ends of the single AmCoach to let the air full of diesel cool the ambient temp. Remember having to make a stop down near Crothersville (MP 72) so folks could walk to the gas station and use their restrooms.. COME ON, MAN!

Update:

alan2955 Wrote:
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I think you should speak for yourself. Many people in Indiana would like this train, IF it was properly run on a reasonably fast schedule. Driving on I 65 to Chicago is a nightmare. I would love to have a three hour train from Indy to Chicago. The more recent nearly 5 hour running times don’t even begin to cut it, and they may as well just forget it, unless they’re going to do enough infrastructure work to make the thing usable for most people. The key is it has to operate on a user-friendly schedule, and reasonably fast. As in don’t leave Indianapolis at six in the morning and arrive back at midnight! And they have to do something about the hell hole Indianapolis union station with homeless people laying around the entrances, and no decent place to park. It’s no wonder the former service did not go over very well.

Alan, actually you spoke for me! Hit alot of the points I would make why it is DOA. 1) Schedule, 2) Running times, 3) User Friendly, 4) Indianapolis Union Station... Quote: "no wonder the former service did not go over very well"... Only thing you said that is questionable is how "people in Indiana would like this train".. If they understand what they are buying, I think it's a big NO.

Good Case Study...Cheers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/23 08:47 by PC1974.

They almost had a shot doing it when it was running, if it happens this time, that'll be a big plus!

MEKoch Wrote:
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> GO FOR IT.   
>
> And do not stop there.  Continue south to NSV,
> ATL, JAX and Florida!

I think Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta has available capacity now, but it still is a mostly pre-Civil War alignment.

It was hard enough to coax the archaic Indiana legislature to help fund the South Shore improvements, so don't expect them to provide any funding for this project.  They were quite willing to let the Hoosier State die.  Also, a couple of years ago they were willing to fund transit improvements for the city of Indianapolis, but included in the grant was a specific clause that precluded rail transportation of any kind  

Don't expect Indiana to fund it.  But then, who will?  And the funding must include upgrading for 79 mph speeds for the entire route (if it's to be competitive with driving) as well as for day-to-day operations.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/23 18:43 by calumet.

Could  work  well   if  the  Indy  to  Lafayette  to  Chicago  route  gets  greatly  improved.    Like  3  daily  trains  averaging  65  mph.

PC1974 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seeing this thread just makes me sick in the gut..
> How Amtrak handled/mishandled the Hoosier State
> is where my profound beliefs come from. I saw it
> first hand. Amtrak showed me without question
> they are not a railroad here to provide service...
> Hope these studies are dead on arrival.. Indiana
> doesn't want this train, and neither does
> Amtrak... Connect US: A Big Fat Lie!

I think you should speak for yourself. Many people in Indiana would like this train, IF it was properly run on a reasonably fast schedule. Driving on I 65 to Chicago is a nightmare. I would love to have a three hour train from Indy to Chicago. The more recent nearly 5 hour running times don’t even begin to cut it, and they may as well just forget it, unless they’re going to do enough infrastructure work to make the thing usable for most people. The key is it has to operate on a user-friendly schedule, and reasonably fast. As in don’t leave Indianapolis at six in the morning and arrive back at midnight! And they have to do something about the hell hole Indianapolis union station with homeless people laying around the entrances, and no decent place to park. It’s no wonder the former service did not go over very well.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/23 18:40 by alan2955.

alan2955 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PC1974 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seeing this thread just makes me sick in the
> gut..
> > How Amtrak handled/mishandled the Hoosier
> State
> > is where my profound beliefs come from. I saw
> it
> > first hand. Amtrak showed me without question
> > they are not a railroad here to provide
> service...
> > Hope these studies are dead on arrival..
> Indiana
> > doesn't want this train, and neither does
> > Amtrak... Connect US: A Big Fat Lie!
>
> I think you should speak for yourself. Many people
> in Indiana would like this train, IF it was
> properly run on a reasonably fast schedule.
> Driving on I 65 to Chicago is a nightmare. I would
> love to have a three hour train from Indy to
> Chicago. The more recent nearly 5 hour running
> times don’t even begin to cut it, and they may
> as well just forget it, unless they’re going to
> do enough infrastructure work to make the thing
> usable for most people. The key is it has to
> operate on a user-friendly schedule, and
> reasonably fast. As in don’t leave Indianapolis
> at six in the morning and arrive back at midnight!
> And they have to do something about the hell hole
> Indianapolis union station with homeless people
> laying around the entrances, and no decent place
> to park. It’s no wonder the former service did
> not go over very well.
>
> Posted from iPhone

I served on an INDOT advisory committee several years ago. It was eye opening to see the dysfunction first hand.   NICTD is viewed by those in power at the Statehouse as a necessary evil.  "It allows Hoosiers to travel to Chicago, earn money, and return home to send money and pay taxes".   Leadership in INDOT and leadership at the capital give nothing more than lip service to passenger rail.  There may be many people in Indiana who would support this train (a reinstated Hoosier State or Kentucky Cardinal), but unfortunately none (or not enough) of them are in Congress or INDOT.  As I was directly told by both a senior leader at INDOT an and Indiana Crongressman, "Why in the world should we use our taxpayer's money to subsidize Hoosiers LEAVING the state". 

That argument is so lame.  How to do they keep them from leaving on the highways.  Just more BS.

> I think Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta has available capacity now

I believe you're correct, but south of Manchester things can still be tight because of the long PSR trains. In the current climate, forget asking NS to accept the train. 

I rode the KC many a time to Chicago spent the day and then came back to Louisville. I also rode it to Chicago to make connections with the CZ to head to the left coast, and visit my son and family. I was one of the very few that rode it. Why would we want to try it again when nothing really has changed and the result common sense tells us will probably be the same.

Posted from iPhone

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta has available capacity now
>
> I believe you're correct, but south of Manchester
> things can still be tight because of the long PSR
> trains. In the current climate, forget asking NS
> to accept the train. 

For now, I would just be glad to reach Atlanta.

I wouldn't consider via Manchester.

Perhaps lean heavily on NS to reclaim the old CofGA route between Atlanta and Albany, and then try to restore the old ACL route between Albany and Waycross <G>. Money, money, money!

What is needed is restoration of service all the way from Chicago to Florida and also service from Detroit to Florida. It is time that those of us who live in flyover country get something for our taxes. There is more to the USA than the coastal areas that have extensive Amtrak service.

I will scream into the vacuum with my dying breath… Amjoke cant even guarantee you will arrive at your destination within 24 hrs of your scheduled arrival, or at all. (Must be why there are no timetables) the equipment “issues” are a catastrophe, mgmt seems to have no institutional knowledge, and the whole industry seems hell bent on self immolation… Yet we have people wanting to spend precious monies on studies for 40 MPH trains, and people defending their existence. 🤯🤷‍♂️

It gets disheartening.

Regards

Posted from iPhone