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Passenger Trains > 5-1-4-4 sleeper


Date: 06/01/23 10:09
5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: ApproachCircuit

Used on the Seaboard RR?
I have never heard of that configuration.

Would that be 5 sections, 1 BR, 4 compartments and 4 DR's??

Thanx



Date: 06/01/23 10:21
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: MEKoch

I do not know if this answers your question.  Amtrak/Seaboard had a car 2105/6405 named Henderson.  It was built by Budd in 1955 with 4 sections, 4 roomettes, 1 compartment and 5 bedrooms.  Amtrak used it as dorm space for crew.   Amtrak/ACL had similar cars 2100/6400 and 2101/6401 named  Everglades and Okefenokee with the 4-4-1-5 configuration.  These latter cars were built by P-S in 1954.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/23 10:26 by MEKoch.



Date: 06/01/23 10:37
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: Topfuel

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not know if this answers your question. 
> Amtrak/Seaboard had a car 2105/6405 named
> Henderson.  It was built by Budd in 1955 with 4
> sections, 4 roomettes, 1 compartment and 5
> bedrooms.  Amtrak used it as dorm space for
> crew.   Amtrak/ACL had similar cars 2100/6400
> and 2101/6401 named  Everglades and Okefenokee
> with the 4-4-1-5 configuration.  These latter
> cars were built by P-S in 1954.  

Correct.  The 42 Canadian Pacific Manor-series sleepers built by Budd also had this floor plan.



Date: 06/01/23 10:47
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: swaool

I have a 1957 SAL timetable which shows the 4SEC-4RMT-5DBR-1CPT cars running as Portsmouth (VA) to Atlanta sleepers B-3 and B-4 (Pullman line no. 6777) in the Tidewater/Sunland/Silver Comet trains.

mike woodruff
spokane 



Date: 06/01/23 10:56
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: stuporchief

TO at its finest!



Date: 06/01/23 11:09
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: WP17

Topfuel Wrote in oart:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Correct.  The 42 Canadian Pacific Manor-series
> sleepers built by Budd also had this floor plan.

These cars are still running on the Canadian although VIA denotes the car as a 4-6-4 sleeper. 



Date: 06/01/23 12:09
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: alan2955

WP17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Topfuel Wrote in oart:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Correct.  The 42 Canadian Pacific Manor-series
> > sleepers built by Budd also had this floor
> plan.
>
> These cars are still running on the Canadian
> although VIA denotes the car as a 4-6-4 sleeper. 

Correct. They don’t differentiate between the one compartment and the five bedrooms. Lucky folks score the larger compartment at no extra charge.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 06/01/23 14:50
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: johnpage

I vividly remember riding on Henderson in the Seaboard days, operated by the Pullman Company. It had yellow interior walls with the standard stainless steel exterior.



Date: 06/01/23 19:59
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: Panamerican99

There were 9 cars with 5-1-4-4 configuration built in 1954 by PS for ACL, L&N, FEC, NC&StL and C&EI for the "New Dixieland". The FEC cars Jamaica and Scott M Loftin were later sold to CN. After the New Dixieland was discontinued they pften ran on the "South Wind". I bought the ex-NC&StL car "Florida Surf" from L&N in 1972 and ran it until 1980 on various Amtrak and Sou Ry steam excursions. It was sold in 1980 to NdeM (SCD). I later bought the two ex-FEC cars from VIA(CN) and sold the "Jamaica" to man in Tampa, FL who later sold it back to FEC where it was cannibalized for parts to use on their office car. A few years ao I sold the ex-Scott M Loftin to the Florida RR Museum in Parrish, FL. Hopefully, they will eventually put it on display as it is complete and should be opened for public viewing. I believe all of the other cars made their way to NdeM over the years.

The photos attached show the "Florida Surf" at Washingon Terminal and Savannah, GA on a couple of the tripss we ran.
-Jim Herron






Date: 06/01/23 20:20
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: Panamerican99

Here's a floor plan I did of the 5-1-4-4 P-S sleepers.




Date: 06/01/23 20:38
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: kcpsbn

alan2955 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WP17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Topfuel Wrote in oart:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > Correct.  The 42 Canadian Pacific
> Manor-series
> > > sleepers built by Budd also had this floor
> > plan.
> >
> > These cars are still running on the Canadian
> > although VIA denotes the car as a 4-6-4
> sleeper. 
>
> Correct. They don’t differentiate between the
> one compartment and the five bedrooms. Lucky
> folks score the larger compartment at no extra
> charge.
>
> Posted from iPhone

The VIA Manor cars have the Section on the aisle side toward the center of the car replaced with a Shower.



Date: 06/01/23 22:33
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: WP17

alan2955 Wrote in part:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Correct. They don’t differentiate between the
> one compartment and the five bedrooms. Lucky
> folks score the larger compartment at no extra
> charge.

I prefer to describe it as knowledgeable folks score the larger compartment at no extra cost:-)

WP17



Date: 06/02/23 05:22
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: Topfuel

Panamerican99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a floor plan I did of the 5-1-4-4 P-S
> sleepers.

That's a very nice rendition of the floor plan, complete with period-correct colors.  It looks so inviting just to study that floor plan and imagine being on board, traveling in "Pullman Safety and Comfort".



Date: 06/02/23 07:34
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: CP8888

Looks like bedroom F in the Via Manor cars is the compartment. Right?



Date: 06/02/23 08:27
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: mp51w

Here's the car diagram form the Amtrak equipment manual.
Those roster shots of Florida Surf are really great!




Date: 06/02/23 08:42
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: jp1822

Didn't know that Amtrak used these cars as "Dorm Cars." Quite interesting. I wonder if that was more because they were "out of the norm" for the more traditional slumbercoaches and bedroom-roomette variants that were operated. Let alone the fact that I don't believe Amtrak operated "open sections" in revenue service with the fleet they ended up putting in revenue service from predecessor railroads, but I'll gladly be corrected. 



Date: 06/02/23 08:52
Re: 5-1-4-4 sleeper
Author: Topfuel

Amtrak bought maybe 8 or 9 cars with open sections during the big early '70's energy crisis when ridership went way up and Amtrak scoured the country for any available passenger cars that they had by-passed during the initial big go-round of equipment purchases circa 1971-1972.  

Sometimes the entire car was used as dorm space, and sometimes the bedrooms and roomettes on those cars were sold to revenue passengers with the sections used for crew.



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