Passenger Trains > Dreamstar LA-SF overnight on the Coast

Article up on this link. Looking to use remanufactured bi-level equipment and offer an Autotrain type service as well. Starts possible Summer 2025 and there appears to be a signed deal with UP.

 https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/sf-la-night-train-dreamstar-union-pacific-mou-19368043.php

Might be where the CalTrain cars are leaving the propety for the North Bay. Seems close to (Alstom?) on Mare Island?

Rob in Fremont

Breaking the Amtrak monopoly?

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5812495
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5664472
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5666082
 

GoldenState Wrote:
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> Might be where the CalTrain cars are leaving the
> propety for the North Bay. Seems close to
> (Alstom?) on Mare Island?

They figured out they need bilevel cars to make it feasible. Just can't get enough people in a single level car to turn a profit.  Converting the interior of the gallery cars seems like a bad investment for already old cars.  They would need to do something like Colorado Railcar did by salvaging old commuter car components and building a new railcar out of them.  I can't see them ready by next summer. There are the old Santa Fe hi-level cars, but converting them to sleepers would be cost prohibitive for such old cars.

Maybe Amtrak will sell them some broken Superliner sleepers since they must have a huge stash of them in need of work and with a car order soon to be placed maybe they will unload some they don't plan to get to.  They could also pickup some used F40s from Caltrain too. 


 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

This sounds nice, but I bet it's another millenial idea, full of unwavering optimisim and lots of eurphoric belief that whatever they dream of will happen, and will make lots of money.  I saw it all the time as a truck driver deliving to millenial-run companies--giddy with all their venture capital cash--the world was their oyster!!

coach Wrote:
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> This sounds nice, but I bet it's another millenial
> idea, full of unwavering optimisim and lots of
> eurphoric belief that whatever they dream of will
> happen, and will make lots of money.  I saw it
> all the time as a truck driver deliving to
> millenial-run companies--giddy with all their
> venture capital cash--the world was their oyster!!

Considering the capacity of the train will probably be that of a 737-700 and the fares will be similar to a Southwest flight. This is similar to running an airline with two airplanes a day. Capital equipment costs to put together two train sets is probably similar to buying two midlife used 737s. Flying a 737 between Southern California and the Bay Area is probably $7k-10k an hour. Can you run a train for that and make a profit? If yes then perhaps a small profit could be made, but it will be a boutique type travel business without more routes.  

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

webmaster Wrote:
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> Considering the capacity of the train will
> probably be that of a 737-700 and the fares will
> be similar to a Southwest flight. This is similar
> to running an airline with two airplanes a day.
> Capital equipment costs to put together two train
> sets is probably similar to buying two midlife
> used 737s. Flying a 737 between Southern
> California and the Bay Area is probably $7k-10k an
> hour. Can you run a train for that and make a
> profit? If yes then perhaps a small profit could
> be made, but it will be a boutique type travel
> business without more routes.  

I am not following your analysis, but each plane will make three or four round-trip's a day, while a train set will only make a one way trip. That's not much revenue potential for train versus plane.

5 people can generate 2 roundtrips with one plane perhaps sfo-lax

2 crews for the train i assume , where do they change?, so 4 crews a night   or no crew change?


https://dreamstarlines.com/

Sounds like IPH 2.0. 

I saw their website about 3 months and actually emailed them asking when service was proposed to start. I can't find the email but it basically said. "Service is proposed to start in 2025, would you like to became an investor?".

cal compliant loco will be hard ,for now...buy some f40's and galleries or hi levels, or amtrak ex hep single level cars

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sounds nice, but I bet it's another millenial
> idea, full of unwavering optimisim and lots of
> eurphoric belief that whatever they dream of will
> happen, and will make lots of money.  I saw it
> all the time as a truck driver deliving to
> millenial-run companies--giddy with all their
> venture capital cash--the world was their oyster!!

I wouldn't just target the millenials. Smells like election year PsyOp. Keep in mind that "train voters" have been deceived since 2008, and to keep us from waking up and getting mad, they feed us bones, especially near the end of the 4 year cycle, to keep us distracted.

It's working. Look at all the anger at the cynics here on TO. :-)

dan Wrote:
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> cal compliant loco will be hard ,for now...buy
> some f40's and galleries or hi levels, or amtrak
> ex hep single level cars

With a startup of this type, one would need equipment which would dazzle - new or highly refurbished.  With all of the discussion recently about Amtrak acquiring new equipment, I don't see that happening within a year.

GoldenState Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Might be where the CalTrain cars are leaving the
> propety for the North Bay. Seems close to
> (Alstom?) on Mare Island?
>
> Rob in Fremont

No, all of the ex-Caltrain equipment is going to Peru and Mexico. They are supposedly in talks on the old SF/Amtrak hi-level cars that are stored near TRRA in Madison. The autoracks are slated to be leased by TTX. There are enough cars there to make at least 2 trainsets worth. The other rumor is that Talgo Wisconsin has the contract for the cars.

This project needs a HUGE money tree to be shaken down, let alone a LOT of prayer. Would such a service work - SURE! A comfortable and affordable overnight train between the two largest metro cities in California (and the country), with good onboard service and amenities, etc. etc. Wonderful. Great idea. But the capital costs, start-up costs (including equipment and basic infrastructure), and ongoing operations would be prohibitive. I'd love to see and ride more overnight trains that this article idealizes between other cities in the United States, but the only operator, due to the funding sources required, would be for Amtrak to take them on. Amtrak should be operating such service, but even they won't touch it, and the states are not going to fund it. 

Look, look in the sky, it's pie.

I wish them well, but I'm not waiting on the platform looking for the Dreamstar's headlight.

Macster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GoldenState Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Might be where the CalTrain cars are leaving
> the
> > propety for the North Bay. Seems close to
> > (Alstom?) on Mare Island?
> >
> > Rob in Fremont
>
> No, all of the ex-Caltrain equipment is going to
> Peru and Mexico. They are supposedly in talks on
> the old SF/Amtrak hi-level cars that are stored
> near TRRA in Madison. The autoracks are slated to
> be leased by TTX. There are enough cars there to
> make at least 2 trainsets worth. The other rumor
> is that Talgo Wisconsin has the contract for the
> cars.

There's no Hi-Level Sleepers - just coaches, transition coach cars, diners, and lounges. Lot of cost to rennovate those cars and to even convert into sleepers. 

From looking at population growth / decline data, my reaction is that Dreamstar may be looking at the wrong market for a startup:

Four of Nation’s Fastest-Growing Metro Areas Are in Florida (census.gov)

I'd have to give some thought though on what area has the best potential.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/24 13:20 by ts1457.

Macster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GoldenState Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Might be where the CalTrain cars are leaving
> the
> > propety for the North Bay. Seems close to
> > (Alstom?) on Mare Island?
> >
> > Rob in Fremont
>
> No, all of the ex-Caltrain equipment is going to
> Peru and Mexico. They are supposedly in talks on
> the old SF/Amtrak hi-level cars that are stored
> near TRRA in Madison. The autoracks are slated to
> be leased by TTX. There are enough cars there to
> make at least 2 trainsets worth. The other rumor
> is that Talgo Wisconsin has the contract for the
> cars.

 Who said that all the Cars are going to Peru and Mexico?? 

Do we know yet how long those two trainsets would be?