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Passenger Trains > Chargers in Run 8


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Date: 04/20/24 07:33
Chargers in Run 8
Author: filmteknik

Trying to confirm that they are telling engineers not to leave them in Run 8 for extended periods. Engine damage may result.

If true it’s reasonable to surmise that they will ultimately incorporate power reduction into software rather than rely on the engineers.

But is it true?



Date: 04/20/24 10:19
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: Lackawanna484

BrightLine runs the Chargers at 125 for the 30 miles or so from Cocoa to Orlando FL

90 mph for 100 miles from Jensen Jensen Beach to Cocoa.

Posted from Android



Date: 04/20/24 10:21
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: ts1457

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrightLine runs the Chargers at 125 for the 30
> miles or so from Cocoa to Orlando FL
>
> 90 mph for 100 miles from Jensen Jensen Beach to
> Cocoa.

What notch does that require for a short train with two locomotives?



Date: 04/20/24 10:24
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: Lackawanna484

On a generally flat track profile, too

Posted from Android



Date: 04/20/24 10:40
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: timz

I'll guess one unit at full power could pull at least
six cars at 125 mph on the level.
 



Date: 04/20/24 11:14
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: GenePoon

Or, are the Brightline locomotives pulling the string of cars plus one nonpowering locomotive?



Date: 04/20/24 11:17
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: ts1457

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or, are the Brightline locomotives pulling the
> string of cars plus one nonpowering locomotive?

Good question. I assumed both were working, but that is just conjecture on my part.



Date: 04/20/24 11:45
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: Lackawanna484

Both units are often working

Posted from Android



Date: 04/20/24 12:11
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: westcoastrails

Definitely the first I've ever heard of this and I've spoken to more than a few engineers about the Chargers performance. It would seem that leaving them in Run 8 is fine. Engine damage that occurs on these units is often related to something else. If leaving them in Run 8 for extended periods is causing some kind of issue then Amtrak and Siemens better start figuring something out. There's plenty of territory where Run 8 for longer periods of time is often necessary, even with two engines and a short passenger train.



Date: 04/20/24 13:36
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: filmteknik

This was based on a comment I saw elsewhere:

"Hopefully you guys can run it in notch 8 unlike the Amtrak chargers just got a bulliten saying do not leave in notch 8 for an extended amount of time could cause engine damage"

This is uncorroborated so please don't take it as fact unless someone in a position to know confirms it.  I came here to find out.

Also, it might be out of context.  Might refer to cranking it up with reverser centered.



Date: 04/20/24 13:55
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: MaryMcPherson

News to me.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Date: 04/20/24 15:16
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: dcfbalcoS1

                I believe if I had bought these and now find out I can't work them hardly at all close to what I need, they would be getting dumped off at the nearest shop for a new and different engine. OR whatever it really needs. Believe the story needs some more research, soon.



Date: 04/20/24 17:21
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: filmteknik

Yes, let’s hold this in abeyance pending further info. I figured it was worth asking about.



Date: 04/20/24 18:09
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: M-636

Brightline Clunkers are rated at 4000hp, not 4200hp like the ALC and SC44, which continue to self ventilate themselves.
Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrightLine runs the Chargers at 125 for the 30
> miles or so from Cocoa to Orlando FL
>
> 90 mph for 100 miles from Jensen Jensen Beach to
> Cocoa.
>
> Posted from Android



Date: 04/20/24 18:15
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: Lackawanna484

M-636 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brightline Clunkers are rated at 4000hp, not
> 4200hp like the ALC and SC44, which continue to
> self ventilate themselves.
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BrightLine runs the Chargers at 125 for the 30
> > miles or so from Cocoa to Orlando FL
> >
> > 90 mph for 100 miles from Jensen Jensen Beach
> to
> > Cocoa.
> >
> > Posted from Android

What makes you think BrightLine locomotives are clunkers?

Six years in, the original units seem to be doing fine.



Date: 04/21/24 09:32
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: M-636

They all suffer from the same systemic issues.
Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> M-636 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Brightline Clunkers are rated at 4000hp, not
> > 4200hp like the ALC and SC44, which continue to
> > self ventilate themselves.
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > BrightLine runs the Chargers at 125 for the
> 30
> > > miles or so from Cocoa to Orlando FL
> > >
> > > 90 mph for 100 miles from Jensen Jensen Beach
> > to
> > > Cocoa.
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
>
> What makes you think BrightLine locomotives are
> clunkers?
>
> Six years in, the original units seem to be doing
> fine.



Date: 04/21/24 09:55
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: ts1457

westcoastrails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..... There's
> plenty of territory where Run 8 for longer periods
> of time is often necessary, even with two engines
> and a short passenger train.

Sounds like western grades - extended running uphill with very few dips.



Date: 04/21/24 11:50
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: westcoastrails

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> westcoastrails Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..... There's
> > plenty of territory where Run 8 for longer
> periods
> > of time is often necessary, even with two
> engines
> > and a short passenger train.
>
> Sounds like western grades - extended running
> uphill with very few dips.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. So if this is true about the Chargers, Amtrak really better be thinking of how to solve that issue. I've never heard of a locomotive that can't run in Run 8 for too long because it might cause engine damage. That should really be a concern for Amtrak, especially since they've dove so far head first into purchasing Charger locomotives.



Date: 04/21/24 19:46
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: M-636

The problem stems from excessive idling the Cummins QSK95. The excessive idling causes piston scuff, which then fails at higher RPMs, like in Run 8.

The cause of excessive idling is two fold, 1) the way SIEMENS has their Automatic Engine Start / Stop Software perimeters set and 2) old practices of leaving a diesel idling for prolonged periods instead of shutting the unit down, and plugging it into wayside 480v, which then triggers fluid heating and circulation.

Cummins has identified a fix for the piston scuff, which will take a couple years to correct. The State owners of SC44s have been complaining to SIEMENS about AESS operations, and trying to get them to disclose the software parameters, which they finally did last fall. In a normal EMD or GE Locomotive, AESS is allowed to happen freely as needed. Siemens operations restricts the number of automatic starts and stops, which compounds the idle time issue. Hopefully Siemens will fix this logic sometime this century.

westcoastrails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > westcoastrails Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ..... There's
> > > plenty of territory where Run 8 for longer
> > periods
> > > of time is often necessary, even with two
> > engines
> > > and a short passenger train.
> >
> > Sounds like western grades - extended running
> > uphill with very few dips.
>
> Yup, that's what I was thinking. So if this is
> true about the Chargers, Amtrak really better be
> thinking of how to solve that issue. I've never
> heard of a locomotive that can't run in Run 8 for
> too long because it might cause engine damage.
> That should really be a concern for Amtrak,
> especially since they've dove so far head first
> into purchasing Charger locomotives.



Date: 04/22/24 13:55
Re: Chargers in Run 8
Author: ProAmtrak

I don't see them going to the Chief anytime soon because of that, I bet they wouldn't make the Westbound climb over Raton with that requirement, besides, doesn't no. 7 and 8 have 2 major grades that those units have to deal with over Stevens and Marias for crying out loud?



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