Passenger Trains > Siemens Chargers Locomotives- Cummins QSK95 Piston Scuff

Siemens Chargers Locomotives- Cummins QSK95 Piston Scuff

From Railpax News:

The problem stems from excessive idling the Cummins QSK95. The excessive
idling causes piston scuff, which then fails at higher rpm's, like in
Run 8.

The cause of excessive idling is two fold, 1) the way SIEMENS has their
Automatic Engine Start / Stop Software perameters set and 2) old
practices of leaving a diesel idling for prolonged periods instead of
shutting the unit down, and plugging it into wayside 480v, which then
triggers fluid heating and circulation.

Cummins has identified a fix for the piston scuff, which will take a
couple years to correct. The State owners of SC44s have been complaining
to SIEMENS about AESS operations, and trying to get them to disclose the
software parameters, which they finally did last fall. In a normal EMD
or GE Locomotive, AESS is allowed to happen freely as needed. Siemens
operations restricts the number of automatic starts and stops, which
compounds the idle time issue.

Hopefully Siemens will fix this logic sometime this century.

What a joke... so Siemens and Cummins tried to reinvent the wheel and it backfired, which often seems to happen in those types of situations. Diesel engines like to stay running, not constantly shut down because they're too sensitive. Not to mention, many layover locations in Amtrak's system don't have a direct 480v ground hookup and rely on the engine to stay running with the HEP up to keep power to the train. It was done with the F59s, F40s, and is done with the P42s. Amtrak/states shouldn't have to spend more money to make modifications for 480v ground power because Siemens and Cummins have a fairly serious fault with the locomotive. Both companies need to come together and figure out a plan and soon. This adds truth and context to the rumors I've heard that Caltrans and the state of California are less than impressed with the SC44 locomotives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/24 09:43 by westcoastrails.

GE and EMD restrict auto start stops after so many starts per day
GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Siemens Chargers Locomotives- Cummins QSK95 Piston
> Scuff
>
> From Railpax News:
>
> The problem stems from excessive idling the
> Cummins QSK95. The excessive
> idling causes piston scuff, which then fails at
> higher rpm's, like in
> Run 8.
>
> The cause of excessive idling is two fold, 1) the
> way SIEMENS has their
> Automatic Engine Start / Stop Software perameters
> set and 2) old
> practices of leaving a diesel idling for prolonged
> periods instead of
> shutting the unit down, and plugging it into
> wayside 480v, which then
> triggers fluid heating and circulation.
>
> Cummins has identified a fix for the piston scuff,
> which will take a
> couple years to correct. The State owners of SC44s
> have been complaining
> to SIEMENS about AESS operations, and trying to
> get them to disclose the
> software parameters, which they finally did last
> fall. In a normal EMD
> or GE Locomotive, AESS is allowed to happen freely
> as needed. Siemens
> operations restricts the number of automatic
> starts and stops, which
> compounds the idle time issue.
>
> Hopefully Siemens will fix this logic sometime
> this century.

So what exactly is piston scuff ?

Mostly the piston scratchs the cylinder walls due to a lack of lubrication. But can be caused by excessive heat and trash getting past the air cleaners
Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what exactly is piston scuff ?

NSDTK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mostly the piston scratchs the cylinder walls due
> to a lack of lubrication. But can be caused by
> excessive heat and trash getting past the air
> cleaners
> Englewood Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > So what exactly is piston scuff ?

I am wondering if the different diesel engine manufacturers have different metallurgy for the engine components ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/24 10:50 by ts1457.

Do Cummins engines in construction vehicles and other equipmenet have this issue?

Why would "idling" cause piston scuff? Unless there is also a related oil starvation problem at low RPM.

Posted from Android

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

And just after reporting this, two Surfliner Charger locomotives died this morning (2111 in San Diego and 2115 in LA) along with the two already dead ones from catastrophic engine failure last summer (2116 and 2117). It takes a minimum of 8 locomotives to run the Surfliner service under the current schedule. 8 trainsets=8 locomotives. Not counting a protect engine in San Diego and LA along with ones down for general maintenance. So LA doesn’t even have 8 available Chargers to use as of today (4/22).

Posted from iPhone

The 6.7 Cummins engine in pickups can develop fuel wash when the engine idles too long as they aren't getting hot enough to burn all the fuel. Fuel wash is when the excess fuel washes the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls. This very well may be what's happening in the locomotives.




DutchDragon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do Cummins engines in construction vehicles and
> other equipmenet have this issue?

Posted from Android

I've said it before:  keep the GE's.  Start rebuilding them.  GE is doing that for the Class 1's, and doing it well.  The Chargers are failures.

Speaking of the GEs, Dash 8 #503 was added to the point of a Surfliner for today (4/22) to assist with the ailing Chargers as no more are available.

So as usual since they were new, they're lemons, Siemens should know how the environment with the railroads experience and all that!

You would think that after 100 years the diesel engine would be pretty much perfected.
Perhaps trying to square the piston cross section as amtrak tries to square the wheel with everything new.

Amtrak operated and maintained the state-owned Chargers and thus has first hand knowledge of them. They’d been around a few years and Amtrak must have liked what they saw.

Is this worse than other issues with new models?

If I was Amtrak, I think I'd stop retiring P42s for now.

Can't WAIT for the Airo trains to be delivered! That should be a LOT of fun!

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You would think that after 100 years the diesel
> engine would be pretty much perfected.
> Perhaps trying to square the piston cross section
> as amtrak tries to square the wheel with
> everything new.

Interesting concept for sure!!! LOL! UGH!

Very informative!!

And the F-59s just keep on keepin on.