Passenger Trains > Amtrak wheel slip follies revisited...

It was reported a few days ago that E/301 was used on a test train in Illinois as Amtrak addresses the shunt issue. Later in the thread is was reported that E/301 "died" (TO Quote) during the trip. Adding injury to insult Amtrak train 393(17) also "died" during it's trip later the same day...

Eventually, the Charger on 393 was set out and both train sets coupled together. A GTW (CN) freight unit pulled everything to Chicago... Houston, we have a problem! That GTW unit needs to be returned to the CN... (But how)

TO Quote: "GTW (CN paint) GP38-2 5861 went south today on the rear of 393. Some other crew radioed DS that something was smoking on the rear at HMW. Caller was concerned about the speed limits of a Geep."

That quote says a lot about Amtrak and the continued failure to create any kinda of real safety culture. Sliding wheels and locking up axles is a good way to derail your train.. The only way to know if wheels are sliding is by a wheel slip detector. That is transmitted in the MU cable between locomotives or personnel riding in the cab of a locomotive without wheel slip protection. This unit was on the rear of the train, so MU was not an option. And by the trackside reports of a smoking rear, do ya think Amtrak called someone off and x/b to ride in the cab of the GTW unit. NOT!

Here's a cut and paste from the NTSB: Amtrak train No. 1, a southbound passenger train operating on the tracks of the Illinois Central Railroad between Chicago, Illinois, and New Orleans, Louisiana, derailed near Salem, Illinois, on June 10, 1971. Two locomotive units and the first seven cars were turned over on their sides. The derailment resulted in 11 fatalities and 163 injuries.

SAFETY BOARD DETERMINES THAT THE PROBABLE CAUSE OF THIS ACCIDENT WAS THE DISPLACEMENT OF THE EAST STOCK RAIL OF THE SOUTHWARD MAIN TRACK BY THE FALSE FLANGE ON THE LEFT-HAND WHEEL ON THE LEADING AXLE OF THE REAR TRUCK OF LOCOMOTIVE UNIT 4031. THIS WHEEL SLID FLAT WHEN THE TRACTION-MOTOR ARMATURE BEARINGS FAILED AND LOCKED THE DRIVING WHEELS. FAILURE TO DETECT THE SLIDING WHEELS WAS CAUSED BY AN INOPERATIVE WHEEL-SLIP INDICATOR. THE CAUSE OF SIX OF THE ELEVEN FATALITIES WAS THE EJECTION OF PASSENGERS THROUGH THE LARGE SIDE WINDOWS WHICH BROKE WHEN THE CARS OVERTURNED. THE OTHER FATALITIES WERE CAUSED BY PASSENGERS BEING EJECTED FROM THE END OF THE CAR, BEING STRUCK BY A CROSS TIE, AND BEING HURLED AROUND THE INSIDE OF THE CAR.

NTSB report was from RAR-72-5. Link follows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a15gkbEX1B4JsbU6XGEPy9jlCnRRBUkr/view?usp=sharing

Amtrak has a habit of this practice, it's also been done on trains headed to Indianapolis (pic included).. And continues to happen on the Beech Grove shop moves to Chicago... Amtrak sure has a hard time of learning from the past. At least they have some luck on the side?

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PC1974, ironic how this tragic wreck could happen again with breakdowns that necessitate placement of a rescue engine ( or deadheading it back) without someone on the engine to monitor wheelslip!
Thanks for sharing this long ago tragic derailment— it was all preventable, and yes, a perfect storm was created when you read through all the details.
Sadly, if they hadn’t been forced to wye the power account my namesake 2024’s headlight malfunctioning before the ill-fated train #1 left Chicago, the now “lead unit” 4031 would’ve never been put back on line, and had that awful traction motor seize up!! Again, it all combined for a perfect storm tragedy, like they all do…



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/24 15:18 by IC_2024.

Many Amtrak passenger cars are equipped with pass-thru MU cables, you need them if you do push-pull operations.
Maybe the cars were equipped?

"Hauling" an uncontrolled engine on the back of an in-service passenger train is dumb. 

Is there any actual factual information about the alleged smoke on 5861 as posted by filmtecknik? Or is PC1974 just injecting something that is not there?

When Amtrak, or other passenger train operator such as Metrolink, combines 2 trainsets into 1, generally speaking, is(are) the engine(s) of the second trainset, which are now in the middle of the combined train, manned by a crew member?

During my time at amtrak it was mandatory that someone ride an engine that was not mu'd.
Perhaps smarter people are in charge today, perhaps not.

I hope the max operating speed of that freight unit was observed.

 

Help us non rails to understand. How is a DIT engine different than a heavy boxcar? Locked axle protection is great but what protection is there if a car axle locks up?

filmteknik Wrote:
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> Help us non rails to understand. How is a DIT
> engine different than a heavy boxcar? Locked axle
> protection is great but what protection is there
> if a car axle locks up?

The car axles are not geared to a traction motor.
The axle quits rotating because the traction motor siezes for some reason such as stated in the quote provded from the NTSB report.

The "heavy boxcar" on the rear may also result in a heavy run-in of slack if not handled carefully



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/24 13:12 by Englewood.

This 1971 accident puzzles me. I had never heard of it before. And I seem to recall in the 1970's how Amtrak was able to boast that nobody had died while riding Amtrak. 

But this accident happened just a month or so into Amtrak's infancy.

So.. am I mis-remembering things? 

Mandela effect? ;)

But if a unit is completely shut down what good does an MU cable do? Is there some sort of locked axle protection still in effect?

Englewood properly questions the top speed of the CN GP. Many freight units are geared for 70 mph, but it's not uncommon for units to be geared for 65 mph... Concerns arise when you operate units above their prescribed speed.

As the speed increases the motor windings can unwind and ball up in the motor. A common way to determine this is seeing what looks like insulation coming out the vents in the traction motor. If the motor windings completely ball up, the motor can freeze and the wheels start sliding..

The speed on the IC increases from 30 mph to 70 mph exiting the south end of McCormick Place.. It further increases to 79 mph north of 39th street. Plenty of time to run the unit faster than it is geared. We don't know if that happened, but the radio chatter suggests it.

Let’s not get carried away. I’m sure they were aware of any speed limitation. I’ll bet GTW 5861 is alive and well back where she was borrowed.

filmteknik Wrote:
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> Let’s not get carried away.

Let's not be naive..