Passenger Trains > Silver Meteor schedule change?

We are booked from Boston to NYP and then NYP to Savannah the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.  The normal departure time from NYC is 3:15 pm, but I received an email from Amtrak overnight informing me that our departure time has been moved to 2:30 pm.  Arrival in Savannah remains at 643 am.  There are no adjustments to the return trip, at least so far.  Thankfully, the 9:10 am Acela departure from Boston will connect just fine, with 1:38 between trains.  

Does anyone know the story on this change?  Are there changes to other trains?  Maybe it is simply a Thanksgiivng week change?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 04:37 by Chessie1963.

I think I found it.  In reviewing the schedule, it appears that the dwell time in DC is 1:04 on the southbound run, 2X the normal time for the locomotive change.  I am not sure why that change was made, but there you go.

Perhaps just for the holiday weekend?  

Well, no.  I just checked that by looking at a December 10 departure from NYP.  Again, a 2:30 pm departure with over an hour in DC.  Meanwhile, the new Floridian has a 38 minute dwell in DC.  Go figure.  No locomotive switch, however.  

Hmm.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 05:23 by Chessie1963.

From your post, It appears that the Meteor will be 45 minutes slower than present

What else can we call it, but another downgrade in service? -- but, downgrades are all that Gardner dose.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From your post, It appears that the Meteor will be
> 45 minutes slower than present
>
> What else can we call it, but another downgrade in
> service? -- but, downgrades are all that Gardner
> dose. (sic)

I love how, without any evidence, one can surmise that an operational change is an intentional downgrading of service and one can know immeidately who was responsible for that change. 

 

RevRandy Wrote:
------------------------------------------------
> I love how, without any evidence, one can surmise
> that an operational change is an intentional
> downgrading of service and one can know
> immeidately who was responsible for that
> change. 
>

I know right? It does get tiresome after a while.  

Posted from iPhone

Chessie1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I found it.  In reviewing the schedule,
> it appears that the dwell time in DC is 1:04 on
> the southbound run, 2X the normal time for the
> locomotive change.  I am not sure why that change
> was made, but there you go.
>
> Perhaps just for the holiday weekend?  
>
> Well, no.  I just checked that by looking at a
> December 10 departure from NYP.  Again, a 2:30 pm
> departure with over an hour in DC.  Meanwhile,
> the new Floridian has a 38 minute dwell in DC.
>  Go figure.  No locomotive switch, however.  

It is an East River tunnel slot issue, with Line 1 closed, they have only Line 2. 97 is being pushed up by 45 minutes out of NYPS to push it farther ahead of the PM rush hour, just NJT when trains are coming out of Sunnyside to be staged for New Jersey. Later on, LIRR train may be using Line 2 as well to go east to Long Island, though likely less than now, maybe a few trains bumped to Grand Central Madison, Hunterspoint, or Brooklyn, but I don't know. The Lake Shore Ltd is still 340p.

Train 69 (Adirondack) is combined with train 63 and runs 80 minutes earlier to Albany at 7:15am, where it will sit until it leaves for Montreal when it does now.

Train 64 (Maple Leaf) will sit in Albany for 90 minutes for 68 to be coupled to the rear and they will arrive NYPS at 10:15pm. Two other pairs of Albany trains are getting the axe, with other consists lengthened. 

They had to save a slot in the AM northbound. I would have combined 69 with 281 instead, but I don't see the need to combined 64 and 68 since there is not much congestion and competition for Line 2 at 930pm and 1030pm. Amtrak does what it easy for them, and keeps the Adirondack and Maple Leaf coupled together overnight in Sunnyside. 

As much as I don't like Gardner and Harris, this is not a conspiracy, though some more thought should have been put into the NYPS-Albany train operations. 
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 06:17 by joemvcnj.

Kevink

I think what you really mean is--these constant downgrades are tiresome.

Your argument with me over always pointing them out--is just a "kill the messenger" situation.

I feel more fellow fans would come forward and say exactly what I'm saying -- except they don't want to
be criticized by fans like yourself, and RevRandy. 

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 06:43 by ronald321.

Can someone kindly post a link to the version of TO where posters are reluctant to criticize Amtrak service or perceived downgrades of Amtrak service? I've never seen it.

Posted from Android

Sign me up on Team RevRandy/kevink.  In light of joemvcnj's excellent explanation it is highly unlikely that Gardiner had anything to do with it, and certainly it was not an intentional degradation of service.  It does indeed get tiresome.
Gordon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 08:52 by gbmott.

"Capacity issues in the East River tunnels" is a frequently invoked reason for changes.  Can anyone describe how frequently / how much headway using the tunnels requires?  Is this one train every three minutes, every five or ten minutes, etc?  Or, does it take five more minutes to run down a switch after a train goes through?

Many TO members have seen European stations where trains are moving through the same interlocking every 90 seconds. How much of the East River tunnel issue is obsolete infrastructure and dispatching process?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Capacity issues in the East River tunnels" is a
> frequently invoked reason for changes.  Can
> anyone describe how frequently / how much headway
> using the tunnels requires?  Is this one train
> every three minutes, every five or ten minutes,
> etc?  Or, does it take five more minutes to run
> down a switch after a train goes through?

Making # 97 45 minutes earlier is a nothing burger.  

The issue is, Tunnel Lines 1 & 2 uniquely (meaning no access to Lines 3 &4) serve NYPS tracks 5 through 13, Line 1 is out for 21 months (then Line 2), so Line 2 will have to be bi-directional. A slot is 3 minutes in one direction, but all bets are off when it has to be bi-directional.That's why Hudson River tunnels on weekends have all trains operating in a 23 minute block in each direction and the NEC has weekend and weekday schedules - 5 slots for NJT, 3 slots for Amtrak. (no place for Raritan or Montclair trains). They often close one tube or the other to continually patch up salt water Sandy damage, which is Stage 3 cancer.  

I think the 3 frequency reductions for the Empire Corridor is overkill. They can replace 2 of 3 frequencies with topped-and-tailed Harmon-Albany trains, and thru ticket to GCT and Yonkers on Metro North, and while they are at it - Tarrytown for Tappen Zee people from west of Hudson River. Metro North will not tolerate Amtrak's presence in GCT for 42 months. Amtrak could do better, but NYS-DOT with their staff of 2, signed off on it, and are little more than a rubber-stamping, check-writing firm who does not second guess Amtrak.

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/24 15:59 by joemvcnj.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kevink
>
> I think what you really mean is--these constant
> downgrades are tiresome.
>
> Your argument with me over always pointing them
> out--is just a "kill the messenger" situation.
>
> I feel more fellow fans would come forward and say
> exactly what I'm saying -- except they don't want
> to
> be criticized by fans like yourself, and
> RevRandy. 
>
>  

No, your repetative posts are getting very tiresome because the tune never changes...

yorknl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone kindly post a link to the version of
> TO where posters are reluctant to criticize Amtrak
> service or perceived downgrades of Amtrak service?
> I've never seen it.
>
> Posted from Android
Maybe it's a version that exists in a parallel universe somewhere.  One that I would like to visit.
Count me in the club of it all being tiresome.

Thanks, Joe.  That makes sense.  That had crossed my mind, actually.

I suspect, regardless of adjustments, that there will be constant, minor delays around NYP for the duration of the project.

joemvcnj Wrote:
> It is an East River tunnel slot issue, with Line 1
> closed, they have only Line 2. 97 is being pushed
> up by 45 minutes out of NYPS to push it farther
> ahead of the PM rush hour, just NJT when trains
> are coming out of Sunnyside to be staged for New
> Jersey. Later on, LIRR train may be using Line 2
> as well to go east to Long Island, though likely
> less than now, maybe a few trains bumped to Grand
> Central Madison, Hunterspoint, or Brooklyn, but I
> don't know. The Lake Shore Ltd is still 340p.
>
> Train 69 (Adirondack) is combined with train 63
> and runs 80 minutes earlier to Albany at 7:15am,
> where it will sit until it leaves for Montreal
> when it does now.
>
> Train 64 (Maple Leaf) will sit in Albany for 90
> minutes for 68 to be coupled to the rear and they
> will arrive NYPS at 10:15pm. Two other pairs of
> Albany trains are getting the axe, with other
> consists lengthened. 
>
> They had to save a slot in the AM northbound. I
> would have combined 69 with 281 instead, but I
> don't see the need to combined 64 and 68 since
> there is not much congestion and competition for
> Line 2 at 930pm and 1030pm. Amtrak does what it
> easy for them, and keeps the Adirondack and Maple
> Leaf coupled together overnight in Sunnyside. 
>
> As much as I don't like Gardner and Harris, this
> is not a conspiracy, though some more thought
> should have been put into the NYPS-Albany train
> operations. 
>  

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kevink
>
> I think what you really mean is--these constant
> downgrades are tiresome.
>
> Your argument with me over always pointing them
> out--is just a "kill the messenger" situation.
>
> I feel more fellow fans would come forward and say
> exactly what I'm saying -- except they don't want
> to
> be criticized by fans like yourself, and
> RevRandy. 
>
>  

I meant exactly what I posted and you know it.

Posted from iPhone

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chessie1963 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think I found it.  In reviewing the
> schedule,
> > it appears that the dwell time in DC is 1:04 on
> > the southbound run, 2X the normal time for the
> > locomotive change.  I am not sure why that
> change
> > was made, but there you go.
> >
> > Perhaps just for the holiday weekend?  
> >
> > Well, no.  I just checked that by looking at a
> > December 10 departure from NYP.  Again, a 2:30
> pm
> > departure with over an hour in DC.  Meanwhile,
> > the new Floridian has a 38 minute dwell in DC.
> >  Go figure.  No locomotive switch, however.
>  
>
> It is an East River tunnel slot issue, with Line 1
> closed, they have only Line 2. 97 is being pushed
> up by 45 minutes out of NYPS to push it farther
> ahead of the PM rush hour, just NJT when trains
> are coming out of Sunnyside to be staged for New
> Jersey. Later on, LIRR train may be using Line 2
> as well to go east to Long Island, though likely
> less than now, maybe a few trains bumped to Grand
> Central Madison, Hunterspoint, or Brooklyn, but I
> don't know. The Lake Shore Ltd is still 340p.
>
> Train 69 (Adirondack) is combined with train 63
> and runs 80 minutes earlier to Albany at 7:15am,
> where it will sit until it leaves for Montreal
> when it does now.
>
> Train 64 (Maple Leaf) will sit in Albany for 90
> minutes for 68 to be coupled to the rear and they
> will arrive NYPS at 10:15pm. Two other pairs of
> Albany trains are getting the axe, with other
> consists lengthened. 
>
> They had to save a slot in the AM northbound. I
> would have combined 69 with 281 instead, but I
> don't see the need to combined 64 and 68 since
> there is not much congestion and competition for
> Line 2 at 930pm and 1030pm. Amtrak does what it
> easy for them, and keeps the Adirondack and Maple
> Leaf coupled together overnight in Sunnyside. 
>
> As much as I don't like Gardner and Harris, this
> is not a conspiracy, though some more thought
> should have been put into the NYPS-Albany train
> operations. 
>  

Yes, like moving all trains to Albany and beyond to Grand Central for the duration. Its been done before, i'm sure it could be done again. The only train that would NEED to get to Sunnyside for service is the Lake Shore, the rest could just turn and be serviced at Rensselaer.

ST214 Wrote
>
> Yes, like moving all trains to Albany and beyond
> to Grand Central for the duration. Its been done
> before, i'm sure it could be done again. The only
> train that would NEED to get to Sunnyside for
> service is the Lake Shore, the rest could just
> turn and be serviced at Rensselaer.

That was just for a summer. For 42 months, Metro North has said -No.

Posted from Android