Passenger Trains > VA receives 23 Million in Grants for Passenger RR improvement

Link to Richmond Times Dispatch

Highlights.

5.8 million plus state matching 5.8 million for work and improvements at Richmond Staples Mill including new canopy
1.5 million to study stop in Bedford
6 Million matched by another 3 Million Buckingham Branch and 3 million from VA for improvement from Gordonsville to Richmond
including improvements to 7 at grade crossings, and tie and track work.

While not in the story, it is my understanding this along with many other projects, started, planned or announced will be timed to finish in or before 2030 when the long bridge project will finish allowing significant increase in Amtrak service in VA and points south. East west service from Roanoke thru Lynchberg, Charlottesville, and on to Newport News or Norfolk will like start before 2030. The next projects to annouced before service can start  being re-configuring and improvements at Doswell, and work at Charlottesville. 

OK....

11.6 M to improve what appears to be a commuter station stop.?
1.5 M for a study about a station stop.

It is crazy, isn't it?  I mean, come on.  in the 1980s Amtrak would have dropped an Amshack at the spot for the station, put down some pavement and put up a couple of lights, pave a small parking lot, and done.  Total cost?  Easily less than half of what it takes to study something now.

Ridiculous.

pdt Wrote:
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> OK....
>
> 11.6 M to improve what appears to be a commuter
> station stop.?
> 1.5 M for a study about a station stop.

Chessie1963 Wrote:
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> It is crazy, isn't it?  I mean, come on.  in the
> 1980s Amtrak would have dropped an Amshack at the
> spot for the station, put down some pavement and
> put up a couple of lights, pave a small parking
> lot, and done.  Total cost?  Easily less than
> half of what it takes to study something now.
>
> Ridiculous.
>
> pdt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK....
> >
> > 11.6 M to improve what appears to be a commuter
> > station stop.?
> > 1.5 M for a study about a station stop.

Isn't that how they did the Akron station stop and a few others after re-routing the Three Rivers across Ohio! The train started out running "express"  across Ohio and Indiana, till the stations got laid out!

This is Virginia's share of the latest round of CRISI grants,  Not all of the $23 million is for passenger.  $9.7 million (42% of total) is going to the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalman for a project to develop a method of integrating wayside hotbox detectors with PTC systems and centralize critical data gathering.  This is a direct result of Palestine OH.  Virginia gets credit since union is based there.   $6 Million to Buckingham Branch for ties and surfacing on 83 miles of track and 7 grade crossing  (passenger impact is that it is an existing passenger route).  $5.8 million to Virginia Passenger Rail Authority, which is a 50% match for an $11+ million project to upgrade Staple Mills station, and $1.5 million to develop station at Bedford VA.

Neighboring North Carolina made out better - they got $105.6 million to the North Carolina Railroad.  NCRR, NCDOT, and NS will contribute more to make total project of $170 million - all of this is to increase capacity for passenger operations between Raleigh and Charlotte. 69 miles of track rehabilitation, 5 miles of new sidings, and elimination via grade separation of a major grade crossing in Raleigh.  In addition to that, the Aberdeen Carolina & Western received $18.2 million themselves to install 30 more miles of new 136lb CWR.  That project along with all the work ACWR is already doing eliminates all the old rail on the line.  Long range plans once upgrades are done include a "regularly scheduled"  "Golf Train" from the NoDa neighborhood of Charlotte to the Pinehurst Resort and Country Club.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/24 05:14 by scraphauler.

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Colo got 66 million for rail den -boulder - FTC? upgrades , have not read the paper yet..

dan Wrote:
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> Colo got 66 million for rail den -boulder - FTC?
> upgrades , have not read the paper yet..

$66.4 million to CoDOT for PTC instalation, and installation of a new siding, plus upgrades to 5 grade crossings on BNSF Front Range Sub.  CoDOT is providing an additonal $20 million. 

Chessie1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is crazy, isn't it?  I mean, come on.  in the
> 1980s Amtrak would have dropped an Amshack at the
> spot for the station, put down some pavement and
> put up a couple of lights, pave a small parking
> lot, and done.  Total cost?  Easily less than
> half of what it takes to study something now.
>
> Ridiculous.

Yeah, then we could all go back to complaining about what an awful disgrace that Amtrak station is in XYZ....now we can only complain about the cost.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chessie1963 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is crazy, isn't it?  I mean, come on.  in
> the
> > 1980s Amtrak would have dropped an Amshack at
> the
> > spot for the station, put down some pavement
> and
> > put up a couple of lights, pave a small parking
> > lot, and done.  Total cost?  Easily less than
> > half of what it takes to study something now.
> >
> > Ridiculous.
>
> Yeah, then we could all go back to complaining
> about what an awful disgrace that Amtrak station
> is in XYZ....now we can only complain about the
> cost.
>
> Dave

There is a difference between an Amshak for the entire city of Omaha as a station (right next to the grand GN station that was unused), and a commuter station stop on the outskirts of Richmond.   And 1.5M for as STUDY.  Not the rr station, just glossy paper and artist remderings and pie charts.
As rail advocates, we want the best bang for our buck.  More frequency, new routes.

The Buckingham branch portion is for Gordonsville to Richmond, there is NOT current amtrak service here. However Va bought that line from CSX with the intention to return passenger rail to it, as part of offering EAST WEST service in va.

Buckingham Branch's portion is the labor of thier employee's 

SO how much rail, ties, ballast ect will 9 Million buy you?

Richmond is the busiest station in the southeast with over 400K in traffic. Not really a communter station, plenty use it to travel to points on the NE, its not regular enough yet to commute to DC.

After the long bridge project, with hourly service to DC and points beyond might be a different story.

mpatrickstone Wrote:
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> SO how much rail, ties, ballast ect will 9 Million
> buy you?

Not as much as you might think.  One of our lines is buying new 6x8 grade 3 ties for roughly $55 each.  This essentially is the lowest grade you would see on a shortline's mainline is just a step up from industrial grade ties used on industry tracks and sidings.   A 7x9 grade 5 probably would tun you around $90 each.   So, lets says you go with same grades 3s we are using, all in from unloading the new tie off the truck at the pile you make to having it, tamped, and cleaned up, you are looking at about $195 per tie.  That includes the cost of the spikes, anchors, plates needed, stone as needed, surfacing, drainage/ditching as needed, and cleanup.    BB doing a $12 million project on 86 miles of track which includes 7 grade grossing rebuilds.  Lets assume no signal work at crossings, just new track structure and surface.  Conservatively, $250k each = $1,700,000 - call it $2 million for easy math.  $10,000,000 for tie work at $195 per tie is 51,282 ties.  Let be generous and call it 52,000 ties.  86 miles of track with call it 3000 ties per mile is 258,000 ties.   Replacing 52,000 of them is replacing roughly every 5th tie.    That's enough to preserve what you have and maybe bump it up a class.  Does little for adding capacity - just gives you a good base to work from to invest more in future toward expansion,

AS I said elsewhere, these latest round of CRISI Grants are great - they are very much needed and very much appreciated.  But you have to realize, the $2.4 billion just awarded is primarily helping preserve and improve the foundations that future passenger rail can be built on - very little if any immediate new passenger service will result from this.  And I think social media and local media trying to spin the "local" connection tends to lull people into a sense of "hey, we're getting a passenger train next year" type mindset when they see these numbers.  And next year when you don't have that new passenger train, the bitching starts on place just like TO that the system is corrupt, consultants are lining their pockets, Amtrak is incompetent, etc

mpatrickstone Wrote:
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> Richmond is the busiest station in the southeast
> with over 400K in traffic. Not really a communter
> station, plenty use it to travel to points on the
> NE, its not regular enough yet to commute to DC.
>
> After the long bridge project, with hourly service
> to DC and points beyond might be a different
> story.

The Richmond funding is going to Staple Mills station, quite a bit north of the city center. I know a few trains also use the downtown station. What's the status of getting more trains into the city center?

Only trains going to Newport news can currently use Main Street Station until the S Line is rebuilt. What remains south of the James is in rough shape.

Virginia's participation is a good example of what an engaged state administration which has a plan can do.

 

There are probably many people who commute only a handful of the days in the week between Richmond and DC as well as between Richmond and Alexandria. It sounds like eventually the S Line will be rehabbed south of RVM-that’s very important in order for more Amtrak trains to stop at Richmond Main St Station.

Posted from iPhone

mpatrickstone Wrote:
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> Only trains going to Newport news can currently
> use Main Street Station until the S Line is
> rebuilt. What remains south of the James is in
> rough shape.

CSX already rehabbed a good chunk of the S Line south of the river, CWR is in place from what I've seen. Speeds haven't increased though.

While there are signs of improvement downtown Richmond is not yet a nice clean safe place. Parking is always an expensive problem. Staples Mill Road station is on the northern part of the suburbs, a very good location to attract suburban travelers and is close to an interstate ramp giving easy access to those living in other areas. Plenty of easy parking and its relatively a safe area.

I never really understood why stations are supposed to be "downtown" which is often the 'hood or away from most residences.

Michael



symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mpatrickstone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Richmond is the busiest station in the
> southeast
> > with over 400K in traffic. Not really a
> communter
> > station, plenty use it to travel to points on
> the
> > NE, its not regular enough yet to commute to
> DC.
> >
> > After the long bridge project, with hourly
> service
> > to DC and points beyond might be a different
> > story.
>
> The Richmond funding is going to Staple Mills
> station, quite a bit north of the city center. I
> know a few trains also use the downtown station.
> What's the status of getting more trains into the
> city center?

More waste.....kind of like how the Acca project years ago to move the mailines to the west side of the yard to improve fludity thru the area, cost the VA taxpayers $135m....and then the Class none RR that runs the line, turns those main lines in to parking lots stretching all the way north to Lakeside, effectively turning the entire area in to a single track line where very often they can't work 2 Amtraks at Staples Mill at the same time because of one track being blocked.  

This money towards these projects needs FAR better State and Federal oversight after the fact to ensure that they are used for the purpose they were intended to do.

The only real solution is purchasing the line and taking over the dispatching. Or in this special case, make Acca irrelevant by running over the ex-C&O (soon to be owned by the Commonwealth of Virginia) from Doswell into Main Street Station and then over the ex-SAL to Centralia. Of course, this has been examined before and the decision was not to abandon the stop at Ashland or the station at Staples Mill Rd. It would cost a lot of money, but if VDOT is intent on cross-state service, it will happen eventually -- even if it's just the Carolinian, Piedmont, Silver Meteor and Floridian.