Passenger Trains > FL Stuart bridge grant scuttled

WPBF and TCPalm are reporting that the Federal Railroad Administration has denied an application for $121 million dollars to build a new, higher rail bridge in Stuart.

The federal funding is a key component of the new, higher bridge.

Details to follow

Posted from Android

That's unfortunate.

It’s a private operation, they can fund it themselves.

AmtrakMidwest Wrote:
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> It’s a private operation, they can fund it
> themselves.

Lots of the grants, I think, are for private operations.

 

If your boat will not fit, don't put it in that river on the wrong side. There is no commerce with a commercial business. Only pleasure boating.is likely the cause. At Newark, NJ, Amtrak is raising a bridge for one trash company I believe much with government money.

There's a webcam focused on the current St Lucie River rail bridge. It is sponsored by the marine industries association for its members. There is a lot of commercial fishing, tour boating, sand barges, etc.

And many private vessels from multi million dollar yachts and motor sailers to small, trailered motor boats.

It is a busy crossing.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> There's a webcam focused on the current St Lucie
> River rail bridge. It is sponsored by the marine
> industries association for its members. There is a
> lot of commercial fishing, tour boating, sand
> barges, etc.
>
> And many private vessels from multi million dollar
> yachts and motor sailers to small, trailered
> motor boats.
>
> It is a busy crossing.

Lackawanna484, were you surprised that the grant was not given? Why do you think it was turned down? Clearly the whole area would have benefited from the bridge. Was it just too big of an ask?
 

I don't know.

Posted from Android

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's a webcam focused on the current St
> Lucie
> > River rail bridge. It is sponsored by the
> marine
> > industries association for its members. There is
> a
> > lot of commercial fishing, tour boating, sand
> > barges, etc.
> >
> > And many private vessels from multi million
> dollar
> > yachts and motor sailers to small, trailered
> > motor boats.
> >
> > It is a busy crossing.
>
> Lackawanna484, were you surprised that the grant
> was not given? Why do you think it was turned
> down? Clearly the whole area would have benefited
> from the bridge. Was it just too big of an ask?
>  

Has anyone seen a copy of the CRISI application for this bridge?    This is the FY 23-24 program which was funded at $2.4 Billion.  There are rules on how the money is awarded, and there are below Set-Asides
-  657 million for Rural Projects
-  150 Million for Capital Projects to support NEW intercity passenger rail service routes
-  32 Million for Trespassing initiatives
-  5 Million for Workforce Development and Training Projects
-  7 Million for Mag Lev R&D  (yes, really)

So total available for Ft Sruart is reduced to $1.549 billion

Projects have non-federal match requirement.  FEDERAL share of project shall not exceed 80% by law.  PREFERENCE will be given to Projects for which the Federal share of total project is 50% or less.    KEY WORD is FEDERAL.   So for example, for easy math, lets say Ft Stuart is a $1 billion, project.  Lets say the Army Corp is contributing $500 million, and other Federal Agencies are throwing in another $100 million,  the most CRISI could award by law would be $200 million but preference would be to give sero and a project with greater local match would take priority.  Again, this is just hypothetical which is why I asked if any has seen the actual CRISI grant application for this project.
 
Projects are scored on following criteria
- Project Readiness
- Technical Merit
- Project Benefits Criteria
- Administration Priorities which are Safety, Climate Change & Sustainability, Equity & Justice, and Workforce Development/Job Quality/Wealth Creation

After those 4 criteria are scored, projects will then be sorted based on set asides and ranked on following
- Projects that may not be address by OTHER FRA grant programs
- Shortline Railroad infrastructure and equipment
- Safety Projects
- Technology & workforce Development Projects
- Congestion Relief projects
- Intercity Passenger Rail State of Good Repair projects.  

So once they have the weighted scorecard taking into consideration the various set-asides, they start at the top of the list and work themselves down the list until they are out of money.  This year, the $2.4 billion was able to fund 122 projects in 41 States.    Of that, 81 projects accounting for $1.29 billion of the funds, went to shortline projects.  

There is no room here to "target" project in so called "anti-rail" states.  Projects are graded on their own merits.  As long as projects are not rejected flat out due to not being in proper form or other error on submitter part, each project stands on it's own merit.   Ft Stuart bridge "grant scuttled" is not an accurate description unless you have documented proof that money was awarded to projects scored lower than Ft Stuart based on the above criteria,   The more accurate headline would be Ft Stuart Bridge Grant Fails to Qualify, and then focus on WHY it failed to qualify.  For reference, the largest single amount awarded was to the Hudson River Drawbridge on the Empire Corridor at $215,104,000.   This project aligned with selection criteria by improving system and service performance by allowing simultaneous two-track operation, removing current speed restrictions, increasing track vertical and horizontal clearances and loading constraints, and meeting modern standard.  And the BIGGEST factor, the State of New York will contribute an over 60% non-Federal match to the total $600 million+ project.  



 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/24 08:29 by scraphauler.

scraphauler Wrote:
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> Has anyone seen a copy of the CRISI application
> for this bridge?    ...

Thanks for your analysis scraphauler.

That pretty much explains why the contribution is not being made to the bridge project at this time.

Question is what does Brightline do now? A bit off topic is whether the Stuart station still being negotiated?

Thanks for that analysis, scraphauler.

The on-again, off-again, currently sort of on-again Stuart station is proposed for a point just south of "Confusion Corner" at Colorado Street. That's the farthest north the town and railroads felt comfortable placing it, given the various alugnment and bridge elevations under discussion last year.

It's also useful to note that Florida East Coast doesn't gain much benefit from a new, higher bridge. 5-6 daylight openings is hardly a serious imediment.

The other issue here is that there is an enormous 'holdup' to clear NEPA/environmental issues before you actually get a funding agreement.  And you get reimbursed when it's done, not money in advance, too.

The two I'm working on were both awarded, and have been effectively 'snagged' to not get to a funding agreement because NEPA has not been cleared to FRA's satisfaction.   Award looked good at first, anyway.

And it's kind of obvious, actually.   One program included a bridge replacement, and by the time it's done, they are expecting a full formal EIS statement that will take over a year and cost almost the same amount as the bridge project itself.  And that is not covered by the grant, you don't get anything reimburseable until the funding agreement is signed except for preliminary engineering.  Historical and cultural impact is part of NEPA as well. We had one held up because a bridge structure was 'eligible' for National Register purely due to age, so until the study is submitted and NOT put on the national register by the state, no go.   And if it is on the national register, you're either going to put it back the way it was, not do it, or come up with a mitigation plan.   Time marches on, costs increase.

So I can only imagine the environmental issues here, it's admittedly speculation.  If they have already done an EIS, the entire package, and can swear on a stack of bibles it's good environmentally, you've got a chance.  But if you haven't even started?  You can have a really good project that just isn't ready.   Realize the hoops ahead of you.   There was signifiant turnback during the TEA-21 years because when projects finally went out to bid, costs over time had increased to the point the money wouldn't cover it, and the project was withdrawn.  I expect similar issues here.    It doesn't have to be nefarious.

randgust Wrote:
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> The other issue here is that there is an enormous
> 'holdup' to clear NEPA/environmental issues before
> you actually get a funding agreement.  And you
> get reimbursed when it's done, not money in
> advance, too.

Thanks for that other perspective, randgust.

That certainly makes getting a project through more difficult.
 

randgust Wrote:
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 There was signifiant
> turnback during the TEA-21 years because when
> projects finally went out to bid, costs over time
> had increased to the point the money wouldn't
> cover it, and the project was withdrawn.  I
> expect similar issues here.    It doesn't have
> to be nefarious.

Great points randgust.  Both of the awards we got this round were for upgrading main lines from FRA Class 1 to FRA Class 2 and were based on 2020 numbers when application process just started, and we were slated to contribute 21%.   So we got $10 million for what will now probably be $15 million in track work.  And like you said, we'll get reimbursed that $10 after the $15 million project is done.  So we have to have the money or short term financing to get the money to be able to do the project.  When you see someone get a grant then turn it down, that is often why - not some political conspiracy, just good old fashioned economics.   Also keep in mind, the $66 billion in funding Amtrak got that the TO pundit's like to use as a soapbox on Amtrak incompetency is hamstrung by all these same federal regulations and requirements.  Its not like they can just go and start writing checks,