Passenger Trains > Floridian - Pennsylvania

Suprised no one has brought this up yet.

With the Capitol Limited converted to single level and through routed with the Silver Star, now is the time when it could add a through sleeper and coach or two to the Pennsylvanian.  No more transition car needed.

Same goes for preserving service to NYC.  Amtrak should take the opportunity to tack on a sleeper and two coaches from Florida to a Boston bound regional train that would be joined to the Floridian in DC.

  It would require a switch crew and an engine and a car knocker and an electrician at PIT.   Is there any staff there at all to turn the Pennsylvanian and do running repairs?

pdt Wrote:
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>   It would require a switch crew and an engine
> and a car knocker and an electrician at PIT.  
> Is there any staff there at all to turn the
> Pennsylvanian and do running repairs?

And you need at least 3 of each to take care of days off, overtime , and other unscheduled vacancies. The good news is you only need one on overnight shift for these duties

Posted from iPhone

pdt Wrote:
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>   It would require a switch crew and an engine
> and a car knocker and an electrician at PIT.  
> Is there any staff there at all to turn the
> Pennsylvanian and do running repairs?

They did in 1998 for about a year without a switcher engine. Not sure about a switching crew, but likely not. They used the arriving or departing crews. NS has since ripped out a switch at the west end of the station, but can still be done with a little thought. I suppose they use a NS switcher to get PV's in and out of there. They have also removed bad-ordered Amfleet coaches and left them on a siding within the station over the years, then some time later, picked them up. 

There was a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) Section to do it in PRIIA law, and the operating budget all things considered was neutral to do it. I have the hardcopy of it, as well as the Cardinal's (daily Cardinal was operating budget negative). The mischievous, cantankerous Richard Anderson "book banned" all 15 of them from the Amtrak website for obvious reasons in 2018. Unfortunately, neither Congress nor NARP/RPA has ever said a word about them. The "Daily Cardinal Campaign" of course did not bare any fruit and made zero reference specifically to that PIP. 

 

How are the connections with 42/43 working out?  Didn't Pennsylvania DOT require the train depart Pittsburgh ON TIME ?

abyler

Your suggestions are good ones -- and would be implemented by a
Management interested in growing Amtrak.

The Floridian/Silver Star merger achieved a COST CUT!

Your good ideas would add cost and offer great new service---which is
of no particular interest to Gardner. (judging by his past actions).

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> How are the connections with 42/43 working out? 
> Didn't Pennsylvania DOT require the train depart
> Pittsburgh ON TIME ?

Yes, but Penn DOT also needs to recognize that part of the Pennsylvanian's success is connecting revenue with 29/30. Perhaps their bill should be cut. PRIIA-209 was designed to balkanzie the system and in essence run 2 railroads beyond the NEC and Gardner as Congressional staffer helped write it. 

Actually,I dd make suggestions of through cars between the Capitol and Pennsylvanian.   To redap,   the train shold leave Cchicago w/ through cars for both NY and Flrida.  Because i explicitly reject the claim of needing to eliminate NY-Florida direct service, I would have major reshuffle of cars, engines in DC.  As a fallback, if Amtrack absolutely refuses to serve the DAL=NYC market correctly, Acela connection at not surcharge should be guaranteed, including full Red Cap suport.

why do I discount Amtrak\s need to cut a Florida train in order to keep the East Rivr Tunnel work goig, I believe this is where Gov Hochul has an opportunity to step in.  As GCT MN, LIRR al are under MTA to which she appoints members, getting them all to cooperate should be possible.   Adding a diner, sleeper or 2, and coaches as the market indicates to a single Regional each way is not a huge project.
The obstruction here, IMHO, is of course Gardner. 
FWIW, in previous times, the Florida trains got EXTRA, not reduced capacity for the winter Solstice festivities.  And the trains did not run empty.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How are the connections with 42/43 working
> out? 
> > Didn't Pennsylvania DOT require the train
> depart
> > Pittsburgh ON TIME ?
>
> Yes, but Penn DOT also needs to recognize that
> part of the Pennsylvanian's success is connecting
> revenue with 29/30. Perhaps their bill should be
> cut. PRIIA-209 was designed to balkanzie the
> system and in essence run 2 railroads beyond the
> NEC and Gardner as Congressional staffer helped
> write it. 

Gunn tried to broker that deal (reduction in fee) when looking to have Pennsylvania pickup the costs for what would been a Pittsburgh to NYC Three Rivers when it was decided that service west of Pittsburgh for the Three Rivers would be discontinued..... The Three Rivers would have been the train that would have offered the "connection" to/from the Capitol Limited (east and westbound), while the Pennsylvanian would have remained more independent - westbound early morning departure from NYC to Pittsburgh, and early afternoon eastbound departure from Pittsburgh to NYC. It came close VERY close to happening, being brokered. I do feel Amtrak did "try" to make that happen. But ultimately PennDOT said "NO!" They used the feeder of the Capitol Limited and "what had been in the late 1990s" as sort of a "discount." Clearly though the better thing to do was to have the train split at Pittsburgh with one section to Washington DC and one section to NYC - or other ideas to try and preserve PA's one-seat ride to Chicago. Traffic between Pittsburgh to Washington DC is practically non-existent for intermediate stations. I know Joe knows this, but for others, yes I know all about the fact that the Three Rivers was single level LD train and the Capitol Limited was Superliner train and the logistics involved with switching in Pittsburgh.  

Around 2006, it almost happened. The eastbound Pennsylvanian had always run 6 hours later on Sundays.That was abolished to allow for thru cars. There were also plans to put the SL trans- dorm at the rear. But then the plans fell apart. Amtrak was also sound asleep when NS ripped out a switch at the west end of the station to make combining the trains more efficient.

David Gunn gave PennDOT only a few days notice before the end of their budget year to pay up to retain the Three Rivers. He even lowered the price to $1 million a year. But Governor Rendell said no.

Now 20 years later we are paying a $200 million ransom to NS for capacity expansion to put it back in a couple of years. I do not see them doing anything about thru cars when we move to the inflexibility and incompatibility of Airo train sets.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/24 01:33 by joemvcnj.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>   It would require a switch crew and an engine
> and a car knocker and an electrician at PIT.  
> Is there any staff there at all to turn the
> Pennsylvanian and do running repairs?

How tragic that the conductor and one of the assistant conductors (who should be a brakeman) can't do this work like they would if this was a freight train.  And a switch crew and engine?  Are you kidding?  The Capitol Limited/Floridian engine can't disconenct and shove onto the cars and recouple?

Got to love the union work rules.  When did these become jobs that had to be done by people doing less than 30 minutes of work per day and which the conductor is not allowed to do?

"Why don't passenger trains make money?"

Suggested sequence of work.

Floridian arrives eastbound.  Cutoff cars are on the front.  While the train is boarding and alighting passengers, the engine and cutoff cars would first pull away, then station business be conducted while the cutoff cars are dopped at the end of one of the station tracks to be coupeld onto the rear of the Pennsylvanian when that crew comes on duty.  Engine recouples to the main consist once station business is complete.  10 minute switching move.

Pennsylvanian goes to New York, loops at Sunnyside, cutoff cars return on the rear.

Floridian arrives westbound.  Engine cuts away and station business begins.  Engine runs around train, grabs the cutoff cars off the rear of the Pennsylvanian and with station business complete couples them to the end of the train.  Then the engine pulls away and runs back to the front of the consist and recouples.  15 minutes of switching moves.

I'm sorry, the premise of 15 men assigned to 3 crews of 5 who do this over the course of the week is absurd.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They did in 1998 for about a year without a
> switcher engine. Not sure about a switching crew,

I am pretty sure they used to combine and split the Broadway and Capitol in Pittsburgh from 1981 to 1991 I think without a switching crew in Pittsburgh.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They did in 1998 for about a year without a
> > switcher engine. Not sure about a switching
> crew,
>
> I am pretty sure they used to combine and split
> the Broadway and Capitol in Pittsburgh from 1981
> to 1991 I think without a switching crew in
> Pittsburgh.

Yes they did. However the switching move you described is a bit harder now with no switch from the one and only passenger track with a platform that also proceeds over the Fort Wayne Bridge. All other tracks with a platform are stub sidings and the other thru track lacks a platform.

The next track over had its switch removed soon after the Three Rivers came off. With PSR and the $200M ransom, it is still not being put back because neither NS nor Amtrak wants it back. Amtrak also killed Pittsburgh as a OBS crew base as another inhibitor when the real 40&41 came off 20 years ago.

I suppose we should be grateful that Amtrak even honors the connection between the 2 trains. Gardner wanted a balkanized Amtrak when he was a Hill Staffer, and now he is CEO. I hate when the right-wingers use this term, but this does represent the "swamp".  
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/24 03:33 by joemvcnj.

abyler Wrote:

> Got to love the union work rules.  


We have worked hard and long to get said work rules.   Don't like it, don't care.



Remember, the company gets the union that it deserves.