Passenger Trains > Amtrak in Better Times

There has been a discussion concerning Amtrak adding extra cars and extra trains for the Thanksgiving travel days, like today 11/27/24.  Years ago, when Amtrak was better managed, not like the fools who run it today, Amtrak would operate lots of extra equipment here in the east.  Yes, I agree that riding on commuter cars that belong to Septa and MARC, or other transit agencies, are not the same as riding on the more comfortable Amtrak coaches, and I do believe that passengers were given a discounted fare for those trains between Washington, D.C. and New York City, which is where those extra trains using commuter equipment was operated.  Here is a special story that I was told happened back in 1980.  When the Chessie System was operating the Chessie Steam Safety Express with C&O 614, the group known as RRP was leasing some of their cars to Chessie for this special train, and at the same time, RRP was still leasing cars to the Maryland DOT (MARC) Commuter Trains.  Since these RRP cars were needed for the Steam Safety Express Train at that time, the Chessie System had to borrow some Amtrak Coaches to supplement the commuter trains.  In the attached photo, you can see a train in Camden Station in Baltimore made up of 4 Amtrak coaches along with an RRP coach.  When the Wednesday heavy travel day arrived, the day before Thanksgiving, Amtrak really needed extra equipment, thus when this 5 car train set came back to Baltimore on the late afternoon commuter operation, as soon as the passengers got off in Baltimore, this train was deadheaded back down to Washington, D.C. Later that evening, those 5 coaches, including that RRP coach, became part of another extra train to New York City.  Apparently, no one either realized nor bothered to see that the 5 cars were not all Amtrak coaches.  Also, since the day after Thanksgiving was a slow day for the Maryland DOT Commuter operations, those 5 coaches remained in operation with Amtrak, than sometime late over Sunday night, Amtrak got Chessie to deadhead the cars back to Baltimore for the Monday morning commuter trains operations.  Keep in mind that during this period of time, Maryland DOT and the Chessie System no longer had a sufficient number of Budd Rail Diesel Cars (RDC's) to handle the commuter service, and so they were leasing many RRP Cars for this service as the commuter ridership had substantially increased during the 1970's.  The good thing was that both the Amtrak Management and the Chessie System (B&O) Management worked together to accommodate the needs.  It's a shame that this does not happen today as I have stated many times, the wrong people are in charge of Amtrak.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

---

It all comes down to apathy, really.

Nobody cares, don’t rock the boat, CYA, make the numbers, etc.

I get it, being employed by the Class Ones is a study in Masochism, 99% of us just want to wish our life away and get to be 60 so we can flee our hell.

Keeping your head down and not doing anything extra is a survival skill in this industry, and Amjoke is no exception.

I wish things were different, but unfortunately I don’t see the Cult of Harrison being overthrown any time soon and this is how you survive in PSR world.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

ClubCar Wrote:
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> There has been a discussion concerning Amtrak
> adding extra cars and extra trains for the
> Thanksgiving travel days, like today 11/27/24. 
> Years ago, when Amtrak was better managed, not
> like the fools who run it today ...  It's a shame that this
> does not happen today as I have stated many times,
> the wrong people are in charge of Amtrak.

I agree that Amtrak has problems. But who are the "right" people to run Amtrak and how can they be persuaded to actually work for Amtrak?

DutchDragon Wrote:
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> ClubCar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There has been a discussion concerning Amtrak
> > adding extra cars and extra trains for the
> > Thanksgiving travel days, like today
> 11/27/24. 
> > Years ago, when Amtrak was better managed, not
> > like the fools who run it today ...  It's a
> shame that this
> > does not happen today as I have stated many
> times,
> > the wrong people are in charge of Amtrak.
>
> I agree that Amtrak has problems. But who are the
> "right" people to run Amtrak and how can they be
> persuaded to actually work for Amtrak?

And do the "right" people even exist anymore?   The MBA crowd has been in charge for over 40 +/- years now. Old school railroad managers who came up from the ranks are pretty rare these days if not extinct!

DutchDragon Wrote:

> But who are the
> "right" people to run Amtrak and how can they be
> persuaded to actually work for Amtrak?

Root of the problem right here.  Anyone who might be good at it (anyone?  anyone?)  doesn't want the job.  It's not like there's a line of qualified applicants standing at the door asking to take Gardner's place.  And so we're stuck with who we've got.

Good story Club Car with Amtrak getting a free coach for the weekend.

Andy

I have long thought that not many people in Amtrak Management knows
very much about running inter-city rail passenger service.

Anderson admitted he knew nothing.  The Delta guys admitted they knew nothing,
and some of the Board of Directors have no rail experience.

I think Gardner knows a little about passenger trains--=but his actions are strong evidence
that he cares about cost cutting--not growth.

My solution? --- Outsource Amtrak operation decisions, and especially daily management, to a foreign rail operator from
Japan, France, or Italy, etc. (didn't a French company operate Virginia Railway Express for a while?)

We desperately need new top management who will stop what I call "Naked Cost-cutting",  which since Anderson, has
severely downgraded Amtrak service.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/24 16:33 by ronald321.

Even 30 years ago I remember a second sleeper added to the Pioneer during the holidays

Posted from iPhone

Amtrak is adapting to a world full of Spirt and JetBlue airlines.  

Spirit Airlines declared bankruptcy -- no need to "adapt" to them.

It is very difficult for Amtrak to "Adapt" to a cost-cutting CEO like Gardner,
 

Amtrak is also in the subsidized service businesss. Their main competition are automobiles, not airplanes. Trains are not airplanes and have flexible capacity, unknown to that AeroMexico, now Amtrak president, Roger Harris.

Posted from Android

Typhoon Wrote:
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> Amtrak is adapting to a world full of Spirt and
> JetBlue airlines.  

The problems with Amtrak run a lot DEEPER than just airline competition.

And not everyone likes to fly....... 

ronald321 Wrote:
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> It is very difficult for Amtrak to "Adapt" to a
> cost-cutting CEO like Gardner,
>  

Controlling costs at Amtrak isn’t an option. It’s a necessity. One can argue and debate about the specific decisions or priorities, but if they don’t control costs they will not have enough leftover money in the annual accounts for capital - of which they have an immense backlog.

People don’t like to hear this around here, especially the conservative folks, but the solution to the majority of the gripes is…more funding! Also more predictable funding would be helpful so that they can do better strategic planning and long term investments. Amtrak provides a great detailed laundry list of things they could do better if they got the higher level of funding that they never do.

It’s pretty simple folks, you can fire all the CEOs and executives you want. With all the rising costs of basic necessities without a meaningful increase in Amtrak’s annual funding you are not going to see anything more than minor improvements. And at this point even keeping the current level of funding is going to take advocacy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/24 08:42 by lordsigma.

What seems to be unknown to Amtrak and Lordsigma is REVENUE, and that incremental revenue can exceed incremental cost so they won't always need more funding. Congress wants improved bottom line.

Since Anderson came along, there has been nothing but cost cutting and consist reductions, rendering themselves increasingly irrelevant while half the Viewliner fleet remains in storage. This is despite record high levels of funding in recent years.

Everybody knows cutting costs is a leading criteria to maximize e-suite bonuses.

It does not require more funding for Roger Harris game to get off his ass and take control of dysfunctional Chicago Mechanical.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/24 12:35 by joemvcnj.

Amtrak is a business where many issues are out of the management's control. Firing or disciplining employees is complicated and usually unproductive. Congress meddles with laws directing hours specific stations have to be open.

Equipment purchases are hemmed by Buy-American laws and contracting rules. And political interference.

Just look at the Chicago shops mess. It defeated David Gunn, Wick Moorman, and other highly competent, honest, no nonsense execs.

Tough place to try to accomplish what needs to be done.

Posted from Android

ronald321 Wrote:
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> Spirit Airlines declared bankruptcy -- no need to
> "adapt" to them.
>
Spirit is still hauling people cheaply.

> It is very difficult for Amtrak to "Adapt" to a
> cost-cutting CEO like Gardner,

They seem to be doing just fine at it.  

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5947004



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/24 13:23 by Typhoon.

Typhoon

As usual, I just can't agree with you.

You tell us that Amtrak's troubles come from having to contend with air carriers like Spirit, and--
even though they are bankrupt--they are still handling a lot of people cheaply.

News flash for you -- Amtrak is handling a lot of people cheaply also (check Chicago--Milwaukee fares, or even Chi-St.Louis).

Last point:  if you think Amtrak is doing just fine under cost-cutter Gardner--then you haven't looked at the ridership
figures for the Western Long-hauls I posted recently.  They are NOT doing well.  You can thank the cost-cutting
genius of running short consist in peak season--

or, the latest cost-cutting move---diverting the former Silver Star equipment to Chicago for maintenance.
(which Lakawanna484 tells us is such a mess, it defeated past Amtrak presidents).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/24 14:56 by ronald321.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon
>
> As usual, I just can't agree with you.
>
> You tell us that Amtrak's troubles come from
> having to contend with air carriers like Spirit,
> and--
> even though they are bankrupt--they are still
> handling a lot of people cheaply.
>

News flash for you, if Amtrak had to operate with the business environment as Spirit, they wouldn't be bankrupt, they would not exist.   Regardless of Spirit's recent filing, they are still Amtraks competition, and serving potential passengers.   However since you feel the need to argue over stupid, pointless things, fine.  Replace Spirit in my comment with Frontier or Allegiant.  



> News flash for you -- Amtrak is handling a lot of
> people cheaply also (check Chicago--Milwaukee
> fares, or even Chi-St.Louis).

Good, so Amtrak seems to be adapting to Gardner's "cost cutting" just fine. 

>
> Last point:  if you think Amtrak is doing just
> fine under cost-cutter Gardner--then you haven't
> looked at the ridership
> figures for the Western Long-hauls I posted
> recently.  They are NOT doing well.  You can
> thank the cost-cutting
> genius of running short consist in peak season--

Yet Amtrak is carrying record ridership.  You are talking out of both ends. 

>
> or, the latest cost-cutting move---diverting the
> former Silver Star equipment to Chicago for
> maintenance.
> (which Lakawanna484 tells us is such a mess, it
> defeated past Amtrak presidents).

Lakawanna484 posted his opinion with no proof.  Something you seem to demand only when it suits you.  Since he never has worked for Amtrak, take his opinion with a grain of salt.  

Typhoon Wrote:
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> News flash for you, if Amtrak had to operate with
> the business environment as Spirit, they wouldn't
> be bankrupt, they would not exist. 

QUOTE OF THE DAY!

The title of this thread is "Amtrak in Better Times".

One way to get back to "Better Times" is put those Acela-2 train sets in service.

How old is this equipment now--4 years?

What I'd like to know is -- how can any Management spend multi-millions on new equipment,
and then store it for years -- with never having to explain it.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/24 18:14 by ronald321.

I would like to see FY2024 and FY2018 compared before anyone makes claims "on record ridership", and divided among NEC,state supported, and long distance, both passengers and passenger miles.

My suspicion is NEC Regional is up with 9 and 10 car trains, Acela and long distance is down due to frequency reductions, consist reductions, or service reliability, and state trains about level.

Until then, LD passenger miles usually exceeded the NEC. That is no longer the case. LD coach capacity has been cut 25 to 33%.

That would show the impacts of Covid and Anderson's attacks on the LD network that preceded Covid with consist reductions, station agent closures, and crappy food service.

Still no mention on how cost reductions impact the bottom line and revenue.

As it is, customer satisfaction scores are now too low (less than 80%) for it to positively enhance management bonuses, so they doubled down on cost cutting to make up for it.

Passenger trains are not airplanes. Comparisons with Spirit and Jet Blue are ridiculous.

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