Passenger Trains > Amtrak PR quote regarding weather train cancellations

“If local authorities are telling people not to travel, it’s counterintuitive to try to run a full slate of services when people are being told to stay home,” Amtrak spokesperson Marc Magliari said."

Buried in this article.
https://apnews.com/live/winter-weather-snow-midwest-east-coast-updates#

In the first place, no one was "told" to stay home.  They were asked. Not everything is closed.  Just like Covid's "shutdown" essential businesses operate and there are still those who need to travel...but apparently not on Amtrak.  

a737flyer Wrote:
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> In the first place, no one was "told" to stay
> home.  They were asked. Not everything is closed.
>  Just like Covid's "shutdown" essential
> businesses operate and there are still those who
> need to travel...but apparently not on Amtrak.  

What are the T&E union officials are saying? Unless they are supporting crews to go out in this storm then Amtrak’s call is correct. Can’t run a train without crews.

Posted from iPhone

Not everyone needs to drive to and from the train station. Most train stations are in the middle of towns and cities and theoretically close to many residential areas where people can walk. This is the advantage train travel has over highways and airports: you aren't as dependent on roads to get tou there. This is the innate advantage of train travel. Once again, Amtrak clueless as to where their products fits in society.

Posted from Android

Amtrak does not run anywhere near southern NJ (like Cape May) where 8" - 12" is expected. So that's no excuse. They can run the Regionals down to Philly. The peak load point of NEC trains is NY-Philly. 

(Haven't they replaced Magliari with AI yet ?) 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/25 08:51 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Amtrak does not run anywhere near southern NJ
> (like Cape May) where 8" - 12" is expected. So
> that's no excuse. They can run the Regionals down
> to Philly. The peak load point of NEC trains is
> NY-Philly. 
>
> (Haven't they replaced Magliari with AI yet ?) 

Trains can easily be turned at Philadelphia. LOTS of track infrastructure and there's still a crew base there for switching and prepping trains. 

Marc Magliari has been there too long.  I thought his predecessor Cliff Black was more effective.

CR900945 Wrote:
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> Marc Magliari has been there too long.  I thought
> his predecessor Cliff Black was more effective.

Cliff Black was a good man in that job, and a good human being.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> (Haven't they replaced Magliari with AI yet ?) 

Ha!  Good one.

Andy

Cliff Black is quietly hiding in snowy Minnesota, and happy to undisturbed..........

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CR900945 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Marc Magliari has been there too long.  I
> thought
> > his predecessor Cliff Black was more effective.
>
> Cliff Black was a good man in that job, and a good
> human being.

I second that! Cliff Black knew the industry and was extremely creative and effective. 

I thought that just maybe, at some point in time, there might be such a statement from Amtrak in relation to a winter storm or other serious weather event. I never really expected to see it, and honestly thought that I never would. But lo and behold, here it is. In essence, "why should we try to maintain any service - nobody else is." The functional equivalent of an eight-year-old asking a parent, "Why do I have to do those things? Joey's mom and dad don't make him do that stuff."

Why? Well, because you're a railroad. You don't have to fly, and aren't subject to trying to land a 200,000-pound airplane on a slick, icy runway at about 120 knots (about 138 mph). You don't have to worry about ice buildup on the wings that can bring an aircraft down while ascending or descending through atmospheric layers in a weather system that might cause icing. You don't have to drive on public highways that are snow-covered and icy, and are subject to very slow and potentially unsafe driving conditions. Simply put, you can handle snow, sleet and ice better, maintain a good degree of service, and get passengers for Amtrak where they need to go. Particularly when the other options are shut down, or have greatly reduced operations.

In other words, you have the unique ability, within reasonable limits except in the most severe conditions, to be the all-weather alternative. That's baked into the fundamental system technology that you operate in, in a way that simply is not possible for an aircraft or a highway vehicle.

And people DO still have to travel. Their trips are not always completely optional. Their destination city might have perfectly good weather, or if marginal, good enough that if they get there they can complete their trip reasonably and safely. All endpoints for all passengers are not simultaneously disabled by weather, in this storm or any other. Others have pointed out that on the NEC that trains could have turned at Philly instead of operating all the way to Washington, maintaining service north of PHL if operating conditions south of Philadelphia were prohibitive. And were they? Video I'm seeing from the DC area sure seems to suggest that rail operations could have continued, at least to some degree. Yeah, it was probably tough getting around - news flash: well, that's winter. But people did. Congress was even able to meet, and the House certified the election. I guess the 435 representatives all teleported into the Capitol, or were flown there by those crazy unidentified drones that were taken out of service in New Jersey and impressed into service in DC for the day.

Same for the Southwest Chief, which could have operated from LA to Albuquerque and turned there, avoiding the storm further east. Or the CZ from the coast to Salt Lake City or Denver. Still providing service to passengers along that section if Amtrak and BNSF or UP did not want to go east of Salt Lake or Denver due to conditions. Other examples could probably be given.

None of this is imagination or fantasy. It was once done - even by Amtrak (imagine that!) - quite routinely in the past. I've pointed that out a number of times in the past when these debates arise. I've ridden such trips a number of times. Amtrak got me between Chicago and St. Louis several times in storms that were about the same as this one. The GM&O did it in a storm worse than this one, with rattletrap old steam-heated cars running behind tired E7s that should have been retired years earlier. The train was packed, standing room only, every seat filled and standees in the aisles and vestibules too because it was the only thing running between Chicago and St. Louis. And because airlines bused passengers from O'Hare to Union Station to take the train instead because ORD was shut down. I know it, because I was one of them. We were hours late, but we got there, and safely. And no, the GM&O did not have armies of men out taking care of us along the way as some sometimes imply. I'm sure there was some extra effort applied, but why not? It was their job to do that - and they did it. And it was NOT some ""testosterone fueled stupidity", as member "Typhoon" called such work in another recent thread.

My nephew calls such aversion to doing one's job and fulfilling the charter obligations and mission of your business in tough or demanding conditions "the wussification of America". I laughed my head off the first time he said that to me. Now I knowingly nod my head in agreement every time I see stuff like this news item happen.

There can be good reasons to cancel service. Conditions can be so severe as to make operations extremely difficult or impossible. They can in fact be life-threatening. I'm certainly not talking about operation in such circumstances. But there also can be serious, difficult weather that does not rise to that level, and in which railroads - Amtrak included - have the unique ability to maintain a degree of mobility for us all that highway or air transport simply cannot provide at that time. It should be within a railroad's basic obligation - and Amtrak's too - to maintain operation and provide service (perhaps with short turns and some segments cancelled due to particularly severe conditions), but with most others still operated.

Finally, don't be too harsh on Marc Magliari. I've met him a couple of times, and heard a couple of presentations from him. One of them in which he bemoaned - with considerable sincerity - the loss of past services like the Pioneer and National Limited. Something I'm not sure he would have the ability to do today (sorry if I blew your cover, Marc). He's a good guy who has an unenviable job to do as management's spokesperson. His words represent what senior managers above him want him to say. And they are the ones - not him - who have by dozens of actions large and small over years and years backed Amtrak into this corner where it no longer feels - and its host railroads perhaps no longer feel - that it can perform the way that it did for many years as a good, reliable, all-weather transportation provider.

That's what's really sad here. The "wussification of America"? Yup.  So sad. So very, very sad.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/25 17:51 by ironmtn.

Amen. Excellent assessment. Thank you.

Posted from iPhone

DutchDragon Wrote:
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> “If local authorities are telling people not to
> travel, it’s counterintuitive to try to run a
> full slate of services when people are being told
> to stay home,” Amtrak spokesperson Marc Magliari
> said."
>
> Buried in this article.
> https://apnews.com/live/winter-weather-snow-midwes
> t-east-coast-updates#

That's a lousy excuse, I know good and well him and the other idiots Amtrak has are getting a major whiplash like the past few years, ever since Airine Boy was CEO this is how Amtrak is operating because of who's CEO, be nice if they get better leadership there ASAP before things get worse!

jp1822 Wrote:
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> train1275 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > CR900945 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Marc Magliari has been there too long.  I
> > thought
> > > his predecessor Cliff Black was more
> effective.
> >
> > Cliff Black was a good man in that job, and a
> good
> > human being.
>
> I second that! Cliff Black knew the industry and
> was extremely creative and effective. 

I 3RD it, never sugarcoated anything either like what Mark said on that article, that's just a lame blame excuse!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/25 20:53 by ProAmtrak.

Even Colbert got a dig in. Commenting on the storm hitting DC, he said that Amtrak cancelled 40 trains and “Amtrak only cancels trains…<pause> …when they feel like it.”

filmteknik Wrote:
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> Even Colbert got a dig in. Commenting on the
> storm hitting DC, he said that Amtrak cancelled 40
> trains and “Amtrak only cancels trains…
> …when they feel like it.”

And that dig could ultimately mean more than all of the critiques here on TO and elsewhere.

It probably won't, as the political class is very good at ignoring comments like that, and letting them roll off like water off a duck's back. But once in a while they get some traction, even behind the scenes, and somebody with some influence takes note and does something that starts a process of change. It has happened recently in Germany, where the drumbeat of such political commentary eventually had a role in getting national operator Deutsche Bahn (DB) (like Amtrak a government-owned corporation) to be forced by the government to address its steep decline in service quality and many delayed and cancelled trains.

Wishful thinking, maybe ...,probably. But we can always hope, and keep up the pressure in our own ways. Thanks, Stephen Colbert.

MC

ironmtn Wrote:
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> job to do that - and they did it. And it was NOT
> some ""testosterone fueled stupidity", as member
> "Typhoon" called such work in another recent
> thread.

It sounds like it 100% was.   And it's always nice to see one brought up in a thread they didn't participate in. 

>
>It should be within a
> railroad's basic obligation -

A railroads "basic obligation" is to keep its employees, customers and customer's goods safe.  Full stop.  That is exactly what they are doing.  

Years ago, like the 1990s, Amtrak had a well executed "snow plan" for the Northeast Corridor. It was derived from the Pennsylvania Railroad's long time practice.

In NJ, it involved minimizing the number of operational switches. So, Jersey Avenue station (which requires eastbound trains to cross three active tracks) passengers had to go south to Hamilton, cross over, and take an NJT train north past Jersey Avenue. So, a one stop, two mile trip might take an hour.  Switch tender employees were assigned to key switches like SWIFT in Kearny with the Morristown line, and LINCOLN in Metuchen and MIDWAY in South Brunswick  to keep those switches clear of ice and snow. The day before, employees checked and tested the propane switch heaters, fuel levels, etc.

It wasn't perfect, and there were problems now and then, but Amtrak (and its partner NJ Transit) ran a limited schedule of  trains even in terrible weather.

My guess is Amtrak now lacks the depth in switch tender / MW employees to engage in that depth of preparation. With many employers now urging employees to stay home, or paying for rooms in the city, the passenger load is a lot lower than it was in a 1990s snowstorm

NJT ridership was much higher on Monday, even though that is normally big telecommute day like Fridays. Could be the snow and/or Manhattan congestion pricing with automobile transplants, or people doing the NJT/SEPTA shuffle since Amtrak was cancelling between NY and Philly left and right without cause.