Passenger Trains > NYC “Congestion Pricing”

I saw that NYC implemented this new toll yesterday amid much controversy with the idea being (as I understand it) to get people to ride more mass transit sit, reduce traffic gridlock, and for the tolls to fund improvements to transit. A unique idea that many people clearly aren’t fond of for obvious reasons. My question is can the systems in place handle say…10%-20% more riders if commuter behavior actually changes?

Posted from iPhone

Yes, because transit ridership overall is down 20% from 2019, yet auto traffic is over 2019 levels.  

This is done in London and probably other European cities as well.  I think congestion pricing would benefit Chicago. There is a solid infrastructure for commuter service.  The key IMHO for it to work in Chicago is to use congestion pricing to increase off-peak frequencies to at least one train in each direction every 30 minutes.  The current practice of hourly headways for off-peak service discourages people from using the computer rail system.  The Sunday schedules are abysmal, with trains running every two hours on some routes.  The metra-electric line is the only route with decent off-peak schedules.  

NYC has twice the density of either Boston or Chicago. Yes, weekend Metra service sucks, but it always has. 

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/congestion-pricing/new-jersey-transit-commuters-report-crowded-trains-with-congestion-pricing/amp/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHqNMJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZ3MtsZKzMezbaynIYmkOocUsKcaK8CDv_u0hcMjcMaimLY7bro8KF-qRg_aem_t5WgJ4nS_fbDUL7ixjFgPw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/25 08:26 by joemvcnj.

DJ-12 Wrote:
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> I saw that NYC implemented this new toll yesterday
> amid much controversy with the idea being (as I
> understand it) to get people to ride more mass
> transit sit, reduce traffic gridlock, and for the
> tolls to fund improvements to transit. A unique
> idea that many people clearly aren’t fond of for
> obvious reasons. 

Hardly unique.  London, Glasgow and Leeds are just some of the UK cities with this type of scheme in place.

Dave

I wish they'd use "congestion pricing" on all the criminals that come into town, and the subways....

coach Wrote:
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> I wish they'd use "congestion pricing" on all the
> criminals that come into town, and the subways....

Last I checked, crime was still illegal in New York, by definition.  There are certainly a lot of folks, mostly those who rarely if ever visit New York, who (inaccurately) complain that the city doesn't enforce their laws, and then complain loudly when it does...I expect we'll hear a lot of that this week.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
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> coach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wish they'd use "congestion pricing" on all
> the
> > criminals that come into town, and the
> subways....
>
> Last I checked, crime was still illegal in New
> York, by definition.  There are certainly a lot
> of folks, mostly those who rarely if ever visit
> New York, who (inaccurately) complain that the
> city doesn't enforce their laws, and then complain
> loudly when it does...I expect we'll hear a lot of
> that this week.
>
> Dave

It's already pretty rampant - people complaining that congestion pricing is forcing people to take mass transit (particularly the subways) that are unsafe and dangerous. I'm in a wait and see mode, personally. Europe has the infrastructure for mass transit - in general - but in general, the US falls short. Yes, NYC is better, but the congestion pricing, as I understand it is also for trucks and getting freight in and out of NYC and that's just going to bump up prices at restaurants and the like. 

The NY Post has an article today about the clever ways that people are using to bypass the toll enforcing cameras.  "James Bond" type license plate holders that flip over to show a phony plate. A little creative Sharpie work to make a "3" an "8", a spray of vegetable oil followed by a dusting of dust.

The Port Authority of NY and NJ has had that problem at the George Washington Bridge where a truck toll is $115 if you don't have EZ-Pass. Guys deface or flip the plate and whiz on thru.  The cops occasionally set up check points east of the tolls to grab repeat offenders

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DJ-12 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I saw that NYC implemented this new toll
> yesterday
> > amid much controversy with the idea being (as I
> > understand it) to get people to ride more mass
> > transit sit, reduce traffic gridlock, and for
> the
> > tolls to fund improvements to transit. A unique
> > idea that many people clearly aren’t fond of
> for
> > obvious reasons. 
>
> Hardly unique.  London, Glasgow and Leeds are
> just some of the UK cities with this type of
> scheme in place.
>
> Dave

OK, unique to the USA, for the pedantic among us. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> The NY Post has an article today about the clever
> ways that people are using to bypass the toll
> enforcing cameras.  "James Bond" type license
> plate holders that flip over to show a phony
> plate. A little creative Sharpie work to make a
> "3" an "8", a spray of vegetable oil followed by a
> dusting of dust.
>
> The Port Authority of NY and NJ has had that
> problem at the George Washington Bridge where a
> truck toll is $115 if you don't have EZ-Pass. Guys
> deface or flip the plate and whiz on thru.  The
> cops occasionally set up check points east of the
> tolls to grab repeat offenders

If I recall correctly, displaying a false or altered license plate in NY is a serious offense. Prison time as it was explained to us. 

 

You can go to just about any chain auto parts store and see licence plate covers that defeat licence plate readers.
Some people don't want the cops or the toll bridge/road operators to read their licence plates.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The NY Post has an article today about the clever
> ways that people are using to bypass the toll
> enforcing cameras.  "James Bond" type license
> plate holders that flip over to show a phony
> plate. A little creative Sharpie work to make a
> "3" an "8", a spray of vegetable oil followed by a
> dusting of dust.
>
> The Port Authority of NY and NJ has had that
> problem at the George Washington Bridge where a
> truck toll is $115 if you don't have EZ-Pass. Guys
> deface or flip the plate and whiz on thru.  The
> cops occasionally set up check points east of the
> tolls to grab repeat offenders

Certainly interesting to contrast reporting drivers who evade congestion pricing as "clever" with their harsh reporting on those who evade the fare on MTA as "dangerous criminals"! 

To be clear, evading congestion pricing and evading MTA fares are both wrong and should be discouraged and punished, but the double-standard in the media reporting is really bugging me

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/01/08/congestion-pricing-city-needs-to-get-real-with-plate-placard-frauds

Thre way the PANYNJ police used to enforce the one-way tolls at the George Washington bridge was to segregate trucks into the right toll lanes. If the automated reader didn't get a hit (e.g,. no EZ-Pass), they would pull over the truck for a check. If the check showed a repeat offender, the guy would be cuffed and the truck towed.

Some of the guys they nabbed had $10,000 and up outstanding violations.
 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Yes, because transit ridership overall is down 20%
> from 2019, yet auto traffic is over 2019
> levels. 

Transit service levels are probably also down 20%, so is this a surprise?  Subway headways are amazingly long.

As for auto congestion, this is primarily caused by (1) DiBlasio reducing the number of lanes in the avenues and largest cross-streets by 40% or 50% and (2) not providing a way across the island of Manhattan that does not involve surface streets.  You would think they could have figured out a TBM built tunnel without exits connecting the Lincoln and Midtown Tunnels and the Holland Tunnel and Williamsburg Bridge to get the through traffic off the streets.  8 million people live on Long Island and they have only 10 roads off the island to get anywhere in the mainland US, the majority of which dump you onto local Manhattan streets.

There was a plan in the 1970s for a bridge from Long Island to Rye NY.

Didn't make much headway.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> There was a plan in the 1970s for a bridge from
> Long Island to Rye NY.

They need to through connect the Holland Tunnel and Williamsburg Bridge and the Lincoln Tunnel and Midtown Tunnel with deep TBM bored tunnels.  Every other city in the world with such a set up has figured out how undesirable sending this traffic onto the local streets is.

Crowding all the truck traffic serving 8 million people onto two roads (Verrazano/BQE and the LIE) also doesn't work too well.