Passenger Trains > NY University Study

Some very smart people using research dollars believe it will cost only $17B to have 2 hour train service from NY to Boston and 2 hour service from NY to Washington

I wonder if any of these smart people understand the geography, terrain, and obstacles inside of the North East Corridor?

This study might be totally laughable in the real world

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/amtrak-northeast-corridor-nyu-study/747235/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Issue:%202025-05-06%20Smart%20Cities%20Dive%20Newsletter%20%5Bissue:72905%5D&utm_term=Smart%20Cities%20Dive

Posted from iPhone

When you see the name Alon Levy, STOP reading. I have been reading his nonsense and caustic attitude for years toward all rail operators who don't do what he wants. 

 When I saw "railroad’s slower Northeast Regional trains would be eliminated, START laughing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/25 11:12 by joemvcnj.

This phrase has been passed down from generation to generation in the academic world.. "Make sure you use up your grant money this year, or you wont get it next year, "    Fostered by our wonderful ppl in congress, on both sides of the aisle, have given out grants, not based on need and merit, bur based on whayever they did last year.

So, as far as I can see, looks like some NYU ppl are using up grant money on a useless study that no one asked for.
Or maybe it was just some dumb masters thesis.

Amtrak seriously considered a straight line alignment between New Haven CT and South of Providence RI for the Boston electrification.

New trains would use that 180-200 mile per hour route, older diesel and commuter trains would take the curvy, but more scenic route via Mystic.

CT politicians saw to it that didn't happen.

Posted from Android

I wonder if the New York University Marron Institute of Urban Management had any input from NYU's Engineering School?

I have not found the actual study.

I'm reminded of a Senate hearing in the early days of NECIP.  The subject was speed and the need for funding for curve realignments at various points between Washington and Boston.   Sen. Russell Long, in one of his waking moments asked, "Why don't you just build a straight railroad" to which Sen. Claiborne Pell responded, "well senator,  if you did that the railroad would pass about 50 miles off-shore from New York City".  Unfazed, Long responded, "well, there could be ONE curve".  This is a true story -- I was there.
Gordon

Some planners, and I suppose some politicians, have a lot of trouble understanding topology.

The New Haven Railroad also had   an Air Line Route  and  the scenic Shore Line Route .

People might’ve taken Alon seriously if they didn’t demand everyone who works for Amtrak/local commuter agency should be fired and replaced with Europeans.

AmtrakMidwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People might’ve taken Alon seriously if they
> didn’t demand everyone who works for
> Amtrak/local commuter agency should be fired and
> replaced with Europeans.

Correct.
In all his various writings, he'd fire anyone as incompetent who opposes his plans for any reason, be it Service Planners, Penn Station Control Center, Train crews, you name it. In any back and forth discussion, he sounds rational at first, then the rage emerges.  

So many studies but never anything realistic to make it to actually happen.......

amtrakbill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some very smart people using research dollars
> believe it will cost only $17B to have 2 hour
> train service from NY to Boston and 2 hour service
> from NY to Washington


The Washington bullet train fanatics at first came up with 24-43 Gigabucks for Vancouver BC - Portland. Not only that, in 2017, they claimed it would already have 12-17% modal share by 2035! At this point, over 3 Megabucks has been poured into planning, which has developed some concepts. In eight years of 'study,' there is no defined route, no defined stations, there is no defined service except that this railroad will have 12 daily round trips (I'm always complaining about empty railroad, this will be a Seriously Empty Railroad). Lots of folks didn't believe that, so the Legislature commissioned an independent study. That one says 36-150 Gigabucks. The completion has gone from getting 12-27 mode share by 2035 to no defined timeline (after eight years of study).

It appears that this project would involve about 90 miles of tunnel (or a lot of extreme urban removal). The original study said tunneling at 230 Megabucks per mile. The independent review said 450.
US rail projects are the most costly in the world (NYU did a report on that). I did a little reality check homework:New York 2d Ave Subway: 1.8 miles $4.45 billion ($2.47 billion per mile)New York East Side Access: 2 miles but 6 tracks so, .7 miles of two track tunnel $11.1 billion ($15.9 billion per mile)Seattle SR99 tunnel: 1.8 miles $2.15 billion ($1.19 billion per mile)Gotthard Base Tunnel: 35.5 miles $13 billion ($366 million per mile)Lötschberg Base Tunnel 21.5 miles $4.6 billion ($214 million per mile)

So where did 450 Megabucks per mile come from?

The proponents want it to look cheap and easy like so many big project proponents do. I have researched a lot of feasibility studies. Often, the estimates are based on other projects of similar length, topography, etc. Problem is, there are no similar projects in the US and the projects in other countries will be way cheaper than the US cost.

My slang term for such studies is Consultant Candy.

TAW