Passenger Trains > Caltrain's new schedule

I have some comments and some questions about the new Caltrain schedule that will take effect June 5. I am a regular passenger, so this really affects me.

I think it would be helpful to compare running times of the new "baby "bullets"" with running times back in the 1970s - 1975, to be specific. I am doing this to see if we Caltrain riders are really getting good value for all the money Caltrain managers have spent on this new schedule. The facts will speak for themselves.

Back in 1975, it took no longer 1 hour and 25 minutes to run between San Francisco and San Jose, making all the stops. Express trains - which were available at EVERY station! - took from 1 hour and 9 minutes (old #130) to 1 hour and 20 minutes (probably due to high "dwell times" at some stations, account of large numbers of people who needed to get on and off).

Back in 1958, Train 98, the eastbound (SB) "Coast Daylight" ran from San Francisco to San Jose in only 51 minutes, with no stops. The westbound (NB) "Coast Daylight" ran from San Jose to San Francisco in 55 minutes - which was slower probably because she had to deal with the commute fleet.

I have to admit that the new express trains (mis-called "bullets" by a politician - but ya gotta sell the sizzle to sell the steak) will average a higher speed than the Daylights because the "bullets" will make 4 intermediate stops. That IS impressive!

What is most emphatically NOT impressive at all is the service that the vast majority of Caltrain passengers will be given: SLOWER trains, and NO access to express trains. That reflects a philosophy which says it is OK to treat some people better than other people. I call that rude. I am pretty sure that people who are unable to use the new expresses - which is most riders - will not like the new schedule at all. Even the SP - who could be arrogant beyond belief - gave true express service (now called "baby bullets") to ALL stations, including less than one year before they tried their darndest to drop the service entirely and replace it with vans that would use Bayshore Freeway (US 101).

Has Caltrain done a true "dress rehearsal" of the new schedule yet? (By that I mean operating the full weekday schedule, both directions: run every train, and see how the schedule works.) This is necessary in order to see if the new schedule will really work. It looks to me as though there are built-in problems with the new schedule: a "baby bullet" will sometimes be trying to do an overtake at the SAME place that a local or "limited" running the other direction is scheduled to be at. At the least, the "bullet" will end up following a slower train just before the passing tracks.

It looks to me as though a relatively short delay - 2 or 3 minutes - to a train preceding a "baby bullet" train will cause that "bullet" train to have to slow down, and run relatively slowly for a while. I am relieved to learn that Caltrain does have ways to go around slower trains in more places than just Bayshore and Lawrence. That should help a lot.

I noticed that Caltrain used to have a self-imposed 25-mph speed restriction at all stations before Giants games, even for expresses. Is this no longer the case? Or will they need to slow down all trains that run an hour or so before Giants games, even the "baby bullets"?

One last question: does Caltrain management realize that trains can "sneak up on" people unless the train has a nice LOUD horn to alert people who are not paying attention? Sheesh - you could be an Operation Lifesaver volunteer with an IQ of 165 and be normally VERY alert - and STILL be distracted when near trains. Nobody's perfect! I worry a lot about poeple who will be near the tracks when one of these faster trains comes roaring past: the present horns Caltrain has are too quite to alert anyone; the engineers might as well not bother to blow them, for all the good they do.

I look forward to reading what people write in reply to this post!

Margaret (SP fan)

Margaret, If the Caltrain engines blow their horns too much, the good citizens of Menlo Park and Atherton will complain. Last weekend, I was working when some of the test trains were rolling through Menlo Park at 79mph. The engineers were laying on the horns coming through town, just like they are supposed to do. Not sure how long that will last once the complaints start rolling in.

"silagi" wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Margaret, If the Caltrain engines blow their horns
> too much, the good citizens of Menlo Park and
> Atherton will complain. Last weekend, I was
> working when some of the test trains were rolling
> through Menlo Park at 79mph. The engineers were
> laying on the horns coming through town, just like
> they are supposed to do. Not sure how long that
> will last once the complaints start rolling in.

Let 'em complain! They freely chose to live near tracks on which trains have been running for 139 years, as of Year 2004.

Did the horns seem strident enough to you to alert people at the stations to passing trains? How far were you from the tracks when you heard the horns?

My point is that the horns are far too quiet to do any good, no matter how loudly the poor hoghead tries to blow them.

MargaretSPfan Wrote:
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> My point is that the horns are far too quiet to do
> any good, no matter how loudly the poor hoghead
> tries to blow them.

Some are worse than others, but for the most part they can be blown loudly enough to be an effective warning. Although there is currently one engine in which I can barely hear the whistle blowing if I'm going more than 40mph (and that's with my window wide open). It's been written up, so hopefully it'll be fixed.

Just as a note, the new MP36 locomotives have much better horn "plumbing" than our F40's, and the whistle has a "full blast emergency" position in addition to the normal one.

> Has Caltrain done a true "dress rehearsal" of the
> new schedule yet? (By that I mean operating the
> full weekday schedule, both directions: run every
> train, and see how the schedule works.) This is
> necessary in order to see if the new schedule will
> really work.

I think they did on 5/16-17 and 5/23-24:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BATN/message/18175

It's certainly tricky, though. We'll see if the better recovery potential of more crossovers and reverse running will compensate for the increased risk in "threading the needle".

Yes the test trains I heard sounded real good. I was about a block west of the tracks and south of the station in Menlo Park. I could hear them hitting all the crossings from from Encinal Av south....Encinal, Glenwood, Oak Grove, Ravenswood. It was music to my ears. There was no doubt a train was coming and coming fast. I had flashbacks to the "Margaret Days" at the SP with the afternoon commute fleet heading south. I also immediately thought, I wonder how long before people start complaining to the city and the city complains to Caltrain. Remember the reason we have the whimpy horns in the first place is becuase of the good citizens of Menlo Park, Atherton, and Palo Alto complained.

And for people from out of the area and not aware of political climate on the mid-peninsula, here is some of the BS that Caltrain has to deal with.

Here is a letter to the editor in the Palo Alto Weekly in 2001...(Acoustic Violence??)

Publication Date: Wednesday Jan 3, 2001

Letters
Caltrain changes

Editor,

It is imperative that we have all the facts before taking any further action on Caltrain pollution and congestion. If grade separations are the only acceptable safety measures to eliminate the acoustic violence of blasting train horns, then we should pursue that avenue. Electrification, alone, will only increase the noise and "railroad rage."

If grade separations, while enabling the free flow of traffic, will not result in elimination of the public-health hazard of horn noise, which is capable of and has caused shock and damage to the nervous system and the sickening of unprotected residents, then relief must be sought by considering BART or some other more modern form of commuter trains.

So far, millions of dollars have been thrown down a bottomless pit resulting in exacerbation of already serious unliveable conditions.

The hazardous noise conditions and congestion are not compatible with additional housing, which is being advocated, nor with schools and children's activities beside these Caltrain tracks.

Or here is a more recent comment on Caltrain noise pollution.

"There are thousands of comments opposed to the horn blasting which is abusive
and constitutes an assault with a deadly weapon"


From: <CITZ4dbABATE_at_(domain_name_was_removed)>
Date: Wed Mar 31 2004 - 17:43:38 PST

Establishing Caltrain Service Levels:

Compliance with California Environmental Quality Act:

"The proposed implementation of the "Baby Bullet" program will provide a
dramatic increase in the level of service significantly reducing travel
times between major stations. The proposed weekday service levels
constitute an overall increase in the number of trains (including an
increase in weekday trains from 76 to 86 trains). The proposed hourly
service on Sunday would also provide twice the frequency offered before
the weekend shutdown for CTX construction. As a result, Legal Counsel
advises that the proposed service levels are statutorily exempt from
review under the California Environmental Quality Act, pursuant to
Public Resources Code Section 21080(b)(10), which exempts projects
involving "the institution or increase of passenger or commuter service
on rail or highway rights-of-way that are already in use..."

Possible considerable procedural errors and irregularities under NEPA
and CEQA for the expansion of the air and noise-polluting Caltrain
service by the "Baby Bullet" trains requires a determination by the
Surface Transportation Commission and other agencies.

The increase in express diesel locomotives and prolonged injurious
blasting horns beginning at 5 a.m. denying sleep and exposing persons
residing or working in the vicinity to a significant increase of noise
levels in excess of standards established in local general plans and
noise ordinances, or applicable plans of other agencies, requires a
complete reading of the above Code with either a negative declaration,
or a mitigated negative declaration under NEPA and CEQA guidelines and
their intent: "...that all agencies of the state government which
regulate activities of private individuals, corporations, and public
agencies which are found to affect the quality of the environment, shall
regulate such activities so that major consideration is given to
preventing environmental damage, while providing a decent home and
satisfying living environment for every Californian." (CEQA 21000. (g))


An accurate and consistent project description is the sine quo non of a
legally sufficient environmental document under CEQA. An inaccurate
project description constitutes a prejudicial abuse of discretion
because it precludes meaningful evaluation of the human environmental
consequences of the proposed project. In this case, the significant
unmitigated adverse environmental effects and scope of Caltrain
expansion since its inception after purchase from the Southern Pacific
R.R. has never been addressed and the JPB claims exemption from scrutiny
and compliance with CEQA despite numerous complaints and petitions.


See http://fra.dot.gov - train horn rule - which will require blasting
horns from San Francisco to Gilroy with significant added cumulative
effects unless "quiet zones" are established first as a priority. There
are thousands of comments opposed to the horn blasting which is abusive
and constitutes an assault with a deadly weapon - shocking the nervous
and muscular system of the human body, undoubtedly causing illness,
accidents and deaths.


The Federal Railroad Administration's Environmental Impact Statement
required by the EPA confirms that the horns have a severe impact on
residents over 600' from the tracks. Caltrain has increased the
polluting trains instead of reducing them, as recommended by acoustical
engineers. especially early morning and late night, with freights in
between. Should additional housing be added beside this heavy rail and
blasting horns? Should an environmental impact report be furnished on
the air, noise and congestion increases of the Baby Bullet with
mitigation measures taken before it finds it takes its first steps?


S.F Peninsular Horn

The simulated schedules we ran mocked what it would be like if a local left before a bullet, overtaking the local in the multiple main territory. All the while a limited express left ahead of it all and just as the bullet was in Mountain View, the limited express should be leaving Sunnyvale to enter the multiple main, leaving a straight shot for the bullet. Also testing was done to simulate a mechanical failur of the bullet say for instance, what happens now since the normal meeting places can't be used without further delaying the local, what can be done now to minimize the delay and make effective use of the crossovers. I ran all three schedules over the past two weekends, the bullet schedule doesn't leave you much room for anything like wheelchairs (PNA), bikes or heavy passenger loadings. I was into Mountain View northbound with 1 minute to spare, Palo Alto, Hillsdale with 2 minutes and Millbrae I had the most time to kill of 3 minutes. The limited express schedule worked out pretty well, with enough padding that if you have alot of bikes or wheelchairs or heavy passenger counts you should recover okay and balance out running times along the way if you fall down somewhere, atleast from my observations. The local is the one that is designed most to work with the bullet schedule, by that I mean going into the siding and waiting as you'll see a difference in running times between the areas of multiple main track, if timed right it could be a minimal delay. But all this boils down to a few things, the railroad being free of any speed restrictions, track gangs, crossings to protect or any signal failures. The next items is of course equipment availability, if stuff starts breaking down, especially on the road as things have a tendancy to do, it will put a crimp in the schedules, especially those with quick turns of the equipment. And lastly, I know TopCat may or may not agree, but some of his fellow dispatchers are known for creating traffic jams, can be frustrating at times when you sit and wait for nor eason and no one answers the radio. The dispatching is the key, the vast majority in the dispatchers office are good folk and great to work with, it's always a few that make things difficult. Hehe, I'm sure they think the same of some of our brothers and sisters in T&E.

Oh and Margaret the 25mph was lifted, sound bell and whistle when expressing thru stations, so hold onto your hats and newspapers folks <g>.

fjc Wrote:
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>> Oh and Margaret the 25mph was lifted, sound bell
> and whistle when expressing thru stations, so hold
> onto your hats and newspapers folks <g>.

Hey Frank, Careful with that bell and whistle going through Menlo Park, you may end up getting arrested for assualt with a deadly weapon.

Why is it that animals seem to be able to adapt to the environment, but humans can't. This more than proves to me that animals are indeed smarter than humans. In the building of freeways, animals moved away. Humans demand a sound wall. When a train sounds it's horn, animals scurry away. Humans don't. Animals don't build their homes/nests next to noisy railroad tracks, humans do. I like trains and the noises they make, but I certainly wouldn't live next to the tracks. Or buy a $500,000+ matchstick house with no back yard near them. People are just plain stupid. The same mindset that wrote those letters is the same one that builds a home next to a 75 year old dynamite factory then says "I'm here now, you have to go away". Some of our engineers dim their headlights when arriving at stations in the early morning hours. I asked one of them why and he said: "so I don't blind everyone". My question was: "exactly which one of them is holding a 9mm Glock to everyone's head to force them to look straight into the front of the train?". People are just stupid. Those letters can contain all the intellect in the world, but the bottom line no matter how sophisticated the wording, is you can't hide stupidity. Here's a novel idea. If you really and truly believe that train horns are "acoustically violent" and cause irreversible physical harm............don't move in next to the tracks. MY God! How have any of those wild animals survived the onslaught of those horrible trains through the wilderness of the Canadian Rockies, or Donner Pass? I'll bet if you did a scientific study, you'd find that a great deal fewer bears than humans have been hit by trains through the decades. I know in my career, I've hit more humans than animals. Not something to brag about, but it sure proves something to me. When an animal senses danger it runs away. When a human senses it, they just stare at it and hope it will make a sharp turn before it hits them. People with a few bucks in their pockets are just plain stupid.

SurflinerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it that animals seem to be able to adapt to
> the environment, but humans can't. This more than
> proves to me that animals are indeed smarter than
> humans. In the building of freeways, animals
> moved away. Humans demand a sound wall. When a
> train sounds it's horn, animals scurry away.
> Humans don't. Animals don't build their
> homes/nests next to noisy railroad tracks, humans
> do. I like trains and the noises they make, but I
> certainly wouldn't live next to the tracks. Or
> buy a $500,000+ matchstick house with no back yard
> near them. People are just plain stupid. The
> same mindset that wrote those letters is the same
> one that builds a home next to a 75 year old
> dynamite factory then says "I'm here now, you have
> to go away". Some of our engineers dim their
> headlights when arriving at stations in the early
> morning hours. I asked one of them why and he
> said: "so I don't blind everyone". My question
> was: "exactly which one of them is holding a 9mm
> Glock to everyone's head to force them to look
> straight into the front of the train?". People
> are just stupid. Those letters can contain all
> the intellect in the world, but the bottom line no
> matter how sophisticated the wording, is you can't
> hide stupidity. Here's a novel idea. If you
> really and truly believe that train horns are
> "acoustically violent" and cause irreversible
> physical harm............don't move in next to the
> tracks. MY God! How have any of those wild
> animals survived the onslaught of those horrible
> trains through the wilderness of the Canadian
> Rockies, or Donner Pass? I'll bet if you did a
> scientific study, you'd find that a great deal
> fewer bears than humans have been hit by trains
> through the decades. I know in my career, I've
> hit more humans than animals. Not something to
> brag about, but it sure proves something to me.
> When an animal senses danger it runs away. When a
> human senses it, they just stare at it and hope it
> will make a sharp turn before it hits them.
> People with a few bucks in their pockets are just
> plain stupid.


Along the same lines, I saw some thing absolutly stupid. They built new homes along the 15 freeway in Corona/Temecula (I do not remember exactly where I saw them) with windows in the back wall of the house. THE BACK WALL OF THE HOUSE IS THE WALL SEPERATING THE FREEWAY FROM THE HOUSES. This means they have a window open directly to the freeway. How freeking stupid is that. Now, in year or so, those people will be screeming bloody murder at CalTrans demanding a sound wall be built so they can have quite. Either that, or they will sue the state when johnny climbs out the window and walks onto the freeway and gets hit and killed. The Architic/Designer and city that approved that should be shot.

What happended to common sense?

Where's the steam train?

Caltrain-Engr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MargaretSPfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My point is that the horns are far too quiet
> > to do any good, no matter how loudly the poor
> > hoghead tries to blow them.
>
> Some are worse than others, but for the most part
> they can be blown loudly enough to be an effective
> warning. Although there is currently one engine in
> which I can barely hear the whistle blowing if I'm
> going more than 40mph (and that's with my window
> wide open). It's been written up, so hopefully
> it'll be fixed.

I keep hearing that any number of defects on many cars have been written up repeatedly - without ever being repaired. Your comment on this, please.

> Just as a note, the new MP36 locomotives have much
> better horn "plumbing" than our F40's, and the
> whistle has a "full blast emergency" position in
> addition to the normal one.

I am VERY glad and VERY relieved and VERY surprised that Caltrain managers actually bought horns that have the ability to be blown loudly in an energency. wow......

Three questions:
1. Is this "full blast emergency position" something that is almost instinctive to use in a true emergency?
2. If you do blow the horn that loudly, will you have to go though all kinds of ridiculous justifications to management to explain why you did that?
3. What constitutes an "emergency" in the eyes of Caltrain managers?

I almost never hear any horns that ever make enough noise to alert someone who is not paying much attention. I would think that a mild use of that "full blast emergency position" would be necessary rather often, given how distracted some people who are standing near the tracks often are.

Margaret (SP fan)

samreeves wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where's the steam train?

The SP 2472 is sound asleep in Building 809 in Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard, waiting for the GGRM to finish raising around $200,000 to have her boiler re-certified so she can get her Part 230 and run again.

Hey, folks, if you want to see main-line steam in the Bay Area, please consider donating some money to us. We are very non-profit and can use all the help we can get.

http://www.ggrm.org

MargaretSPfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I keep hearing that any number of defects on many
> cars have been written up repeatedly - without
> ever being repaired. Your comment on this,
> please.

I have found that to be the case all too often, unfortunately. In the case of the whistles, federal regulations require them to put out 100 decibels at a distance of 100 feet directly in front of the locomotive, while it is standing still. The problem is that some of the whistles "choke" on the oncoming air while the locomotive is moving at track speed, causing the whistle to be far too quiet when you need it the most. As a result, even though I write up the whistle it may pass the standing test, and they won't do anything about it. Hooray for sticking to the bare minimum.

> I am VERY glad and VERY relieved and VERY
> surprised that Caltrain managers actually bought
> horns that have the ability to be blown loudly in
> an energency. wow......
>
> Three questions:
> 1. Is this "full blast emergency position"
> something that is almost instinctive to use in a
> true emergency?

The whistle switch has three positions: center (default, whistle off), back (normal whistle), and forward (emergency blast). I have used the "emergency blast" on a few occasions, and I feel that it's pretty instinctive.

> 2. If you do blow the horn that loudly, will you
> have to go though all kinds of ridiculous
> justifications to management to explain why you
> did that?

Thankfully we are not required to justify our use of the whistle. It is still at our discretion to decide when where and how to use it. Also, there is no way for anyone to tell whether we used the "emergency" or normal blast -- that does not get recorded by the event recorder, it just shows as "whistle".

> 3. What constitutes an "emergency" in the eyes of
> Caltrain managers?

Luckily, they don't get to decide. It's still up to us. If I feel that there is an impending incident, I'll use it.

> I almost never hear any horns that ever make
> enough noise to alert someone who is not paying
> much attention. I would think that a mild use of
> that "full blast emergency position" would be
> necessary rather often, given how distracted some
> people who are standing near the tracks often
> are.

Just to clarify, the "emergency whistle" only applies to the new MP36 locomotives. Also, when you hear that whistle you need to remember the person using it -- many engineers purposely don't blow it very loudly, others lay on it like you wouldn't believe. It's all a matter of preference. As it stands now, there is nothing anywhere that says how loudly we must blow the whistle. Nor is there anything that tells us how long a "long" is, or how short a "short" is. We must start 1/4 mile before the crossing, make the proper signal, and that's about it.

I think I tend to whistle more loudly than some others (although it depends on time of day), and I make sure to give the proper --o-. I feel that the "emergency blast" should be spared unless you see something imminently dangerous. It should be able to get someone's attention. If people hear it all the time, they'll be more likely to ignore it.

Hope that answers your questions.

Caltrain-Engr

Caltrain-Engr Wrote:
> Just to clarify, the "emergency whistle" only
> applies to the new MP36 locomotives. Also, when
> you hear that whistle you need to remember the
> person using it -- many engineers purposely don't
> blow it very loudly, others lay on it like you
> wouldn't believe. It's all a matter of preference.


Come next year, a lot of the engineers who consider the whistle an inconvenience and blow it only because it's a rule are going to have a rude awakening when the laws change to put some of the responsibility on the engineer's shoulders when it comes to providing warning. It won't be a matter of preference after the first engineer loses his home in a lawsuit for not blowing the whistle properly. For engineers that just toot-toot once in awhile, you'd better wake up.

Did you ever check with the BNSF in Chicago? They have a three track main out to Aurora and a very heavy suburban operation. They make very good use of all three tracks, running trains around each other as needed. Their experiences with nornal and abnormal conditions could be helpful.

Bill Davidson

Back in the 1950's the C&NW '400's used to come through Highland Park (one of Chicago's suburbs) doing 100mph. Local ordinances prohibited sounding the horn in most of the suburbs, so all you heard was a whoosh and a bell. All crossings did have gates.

No one got killed. We all learned about this at a very early age and had the good sense to pay attention and stay off and away from the tracks. Even though most of the trains were slow moving suburban trains or faster moving expresses, we knew that a '400' could breeze by at any time.

Bill Davidson

Thanks, Caltrain-Engnr! :) I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.