Passenger Trains > Skoropowski: Gunn told not to submit a funding request

In a public meeting of the Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority in
Suisun, CA last night, Managing Director Gene Skoropowski reported that he
had spoken to Amtrak President David Gunn about the Amtrak funding issue.
Gunn said he had been called by U.S. Secretary of Transportation Norman
Mineta, who told him...and presumably also told the rest of the Amtrak
Board...not to request any funding for FY06.

Gunn had just met with the other three members of the board and said it
was undecided as to what they would do.

As a result, the annual Amtrak Report to Congress does not contain the
usual request for funding for the next Fiscal Year.

Amtrak's being railroaded and bushwacked. Absolute insanity and short sighted. Just give us a little bit of the money that they are going to use for the Mars Mission.

This is going to be fun to watch. You don't have to be a lawyer or an MBA to figure out what's going to happen next.

Bob

At least 27 Senators have signed a letter authored by Sens. Burns and Lautenberg to the head of the Budget Committee requesting that full subsidy for Amtrak be included in the 2006 FY budget. At least they're aware of the problem.

RPM

> At least 27 Senators have signed a letter authored
> by Sens. Burns and Lautenberg to the head of the
> Budget Committee requesting that full subsidy for
> Amtrak be included in the 2006 FY budget. At least
> they're aware of the problem.


Well, unfortunately they need 51 senators to make something happen.

However, I second the above comments. It seems to me that Dubbya can find all the money in the world to pay for his needless wars, but he can't seem to find the money to fund anything at home. What's the point of defending America if there's nothing left to defend?

stash Wrote:
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> I believe there is some highway money
> in that sick budget and, if so, that would be
> typical. Doubt there would be any help for
> railroads, however.
>
I can't find the details but IIRC the 6-year highway request is close to double current funding. Somewhere approaching $50 billion/year. I couldn't believe it when I read it and not only will I stand corrected I desperately hope I'm wrong!!!!!!!!

Lowwater

Can we leave the bashing of various persons out of this thread and talk about the issue?

(vent your anger somewhere else)

Thus the question is: Did Amtrak's board tell Gunn not submit a funding request?

Can Congress appropriate money anyway?

Could Amtrak's board refuse to spend appropriated money?

If the Amtrak board announced the cessation of various trains (long distance I would assume), can they do this unilaterally by simply posting 180 day notices?

Can Congress mandate certain trains operate? Remember the various trains thru West Virginia.

So why did we all rush out and vote for him????? I am glad I don't have that guilt. Histroy will repeat itself if you let it. We are letting it..

Not a Bush Supporting Conductor so you all know...

MEKoch Wrote:
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> Can we leave the bashing of various persons out of
> this thread and talk about the issue?

The issue, as I understand it, is the President wants to kill Amtrak.

The issue, as I understand it, is the big guy in charge wants to save taxpayers' money. (At least I suppose that's the rationale.)

The issue, as I understand it, is multiple wars cost much, much, much, more than Amtrak or any other domestic needs. Therefore, one might ask: is it worthwhile for the American taxpayers to fund yet more wars?

Is is all about Amtrak. It is about how the people's money is spent.

I need some help!

1. Amtrak was established by a law passed by congress. Doesn't it take another law passed by congress to kill Amtrak?
2. When NRPC was established congress mandated a very generous severance package for Amtrak employees. The only way payment can be avoided is to declare bankruptcy (by Amtrak or the whole government?)
3. Amtrak has existing contracts to operate commute service in many locations across the country. Does this mean that Amtrak defaults on these contracts? is the intent to kill all commuter service too?
4. If NE corridor service is stopped that will put a lot of unplanned for butts in airplane seats. Is the capacity there?
5. What happens to the Amtrak equipment that is scattered across the country? Will it all be just left in place on midnight when FY 2004 ends? Like the Zephyr sitting in the middle of the Nevada desert?

Somebody help me because I don't understand any of this. Mineta was mayor of San Jose and represented us in congress for a number of years. He never came across as a dummy.

Hal Lewis

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MEKoch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> The issue, as I understand it, is multiple wars
> cost much, much, much, more than Amtrak or any
> other domestic needs. Therefore, one might ask: is
> it worthwhile for the American taxpayers to fund
> yet more wars?
>
> Is is all about Amtrak. It is about how the
> people's money is spent.

The wars, tax cut, Medicare drug plan, etc. are being funded by massive government borrowing. If the taxpayers were paying for all of this real-time, there would be a march on Washington.

Who's buying the U.S. debt? Other countries with high savings rates and productive manufacturing assets which are producing surplus profits. Nations buying the federal debt (you guessed it) are China, India, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Japan, etc.

Bush is essentially liquidating the United States. We are all going to learn what it is like to live in a Third World country (with no train service). Bob

With peace in W's mind in Iraq now, we shall invade Iran in six months..

J-1Hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I need some help!
>
> 1. Amtrak was established by a law passed by
> congress. Doesn't it take another law passed by
> congress to kill Amtrak?

Yes, but if spending bills don't fund it each year, a bill to kill it is academic.

> 2. When NRPC was established congress mandated a
> very generous severance package for Amtrak
> employees. The only way payment can be avoided is
> to declare bankruptcy (by Amtrak or the whole
> government?)

Not sure about this, but I guess Congress could pass a bill reducing the severance. I suspect that some employees with rights on freight railroads would flow back. If Amtrak remains in existence with a transformed role, not everyone gets canned. I need more information on the details of the severance, but I don't see that the severance issue is a reason not to proceed with transformation.

> 3. Amtrak has existing contracts to operate
> commute service in many locations across the
> country. Does this mean that Amtrak defaults on
> these contracts? is the intent to kill all
> commuter service too?

No. IIRC, Amtrak is longer the contractor for a couple of big commuter agencies that they had a few years ago. That's going to give Amtrak less political clout this go-around.

> 4. If NE corridor service is stopped that will put
> a lot of unplanned for butts in airplane seats.
> Is the capacity there?

Plenty of planes, but maybe a problem with gates, runways, and air traffic control. Such a crisis, I think, will force a solution that will be better in the future than Amtrak is capable of providing.

> 5. What happens to the Amtrak equipment that is
> scattered across the country? Will it all be just
> left in place on midnight when FY 2004 ends? Like
> the Zephyr sitting in the middle of the Nevada
> desert?

Any of it under trust certificate will be moved and disposed of by its owner. Amtrak owned equipment will be handled in similar fshion by the bankruptcy trustee.

> Somebody help me because I don't understand any of
> this. Mineta was mayor of San Jose and
> represented us in congress for a number of years.
> He never came across as a dummy.

No opinion here.

I wonder what this many people flooding the RRB for un-employment benefits would do to the Retirement Fund itself?

J-1Hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I need some help!
>
> 1. Amtrak was established by a law passed by
> congress. Doesn't it take another law passed by
> congress to kill Amtrak?

With no money to operate trains, pay bills or make payroll, the system is driven into bankruptcy. Congress would not have to pass any law. What you'l have is a bunch of liberal Senators & Congresspeople crying foul.

> 2. When NRPC was established congress mandated a
> very generous severance package for Amtrak
> employees. The only way payment can be avoided is
> to declare bankruptcy (by Amtrak or the whole
> government?)

Well, I hope its only Amtrak that declares bankruptcy. Congress can legislatively amend the severance package. This was discussed on C-Span a couple of years ago. I forget who the legislator was who said something to the effect of "...we here in Congress can legislatively ammend that law..." This was said in of those sessions that David Gunn has to report to a sub-comittee. Mr. Gunn was addressing the issue that to discontinue a long distance train, Amtrak would continue to fund the payroll for two more years.

> 3. Amtrak has existing contracts to operate
> commute service in many locations across the
> country. Does this mean that Amtrak defaults on
> these contracts? is the intent to kill all
> commuter service too?

I am sure that other carriers if they see a profit incentive, they'll step up to the plate.

> 4. If NE corridor service is stopped that will put
> a lot of unplanned for butts in airplane seats.
> Is the capacity there?

This is one area where another operator has to take over and the states & federal government must insure the existance of passenger rail coverage even if they have to subsidize the private carrier.

> 5. What happens to the Amtrak equipment that is
> scattered across the country? Will it all be just
> left in place on midnight when FY 2004 ends? Like
> the Zephyr sitting in the middle of the Nevada
> desert?

If in bankruptcy the Trustee will see to it that the assets are protected and centralized for protection and sale purposes.



> Somebody help me because I don't understand any of
> this. Mineta was mayor of San Jose and
> represented us in congress for a number of years.
> He never came across as a dummy.

Mr Mineta is pretty clear cut in allot of issues. This is why the President held him over from President Clinton's Administration, and he; President Bush has held him over for his second term. That says allot about Secretary Mineta.

By the way, for Amtrak's sakes I thought that Governor Tommy Thompson may have been a better pick for Transportation Secretary as he had allot of involvement with Amtrak when he was Wisconsin's Governor.

> Hal Lewis

Dan V, your stupidity defies comprehension.

>With no money to operate trains, pay bills or make payroll, the system is driven into >bankruptcy. Congress would not have to pass any law. What you'l have is a bunch of >liberal Senators & Congresspeople crying foul.

You'll have a lot more than that crying foul. STB has no ability nor authority to keep the NEC in operation. The bankruptcy judge would. Every congressmen and governor on the 2 coasts and the midwest will be doing the same thing as their economies are adversely affected. The commuter authorites are in no legal nor financial position to do so either.


>Well, I hope its only Amtrak that declares bankruptcy. Congress can legislatively amend >the severance package. This was discussed on C-Span a couple of years ago. I forget who >the legislator was who said something to the effect of "...we here in Congress can >legislatively ammend that law..." This was said in of those sessions that David Gunn >has to report to a sub-comittee. Mr. Gunn was addressing the issue that to discontinue >a long distance train, Amtrak would continue to fund the payroll for two more years.

You better do a lot more than hope. That is a collective bargaining agreement and would again fall onto the bankruptcy courts. Expect RR retirement unemployment fund to bankrupt immediately, followed by a huge spike in payroll taxes towrd the RR retiremnt system.


> am sure that other carriers if they see a profit incentive, they'll step up to the > plate

There are no profit incentives, on or off the NEC.

>This is one area where another operator has to take over and the states & federal >government must insure the existance of passenger rail coverage even if they have to >subsidize the private carrier.

Which they might as well let Amtrak to do and avoid the bankruptcy drama. The states and federal governments don't have to do anything.


>Mr Mineta is pretty clear cut in allot of issues. This is why the President held him >over from President Clinton's Administration, and he; President Bush has held him over >for his second term. That says allot about Secretary Mineta.

He held him over because he's a spineless lapdog that has been Peter Principled, never has thought of conequences beyond 10/1/05, that was sickly, wants a pension boost, and does what he's told.

All I can say is that it's gonna be a war this year, but the way Bush is running things, yeah he's killing this country! I wish I didn't re-elect him, but Kerry's up and down plans and all, I had no choice! I hope we got Amtrak in FY2006, if not, we're in major trouble!

> There are no profit incentives, on or off the NEC.

Bush and Mineta seem to be the only ones who think private companies are just sitting around waiting to take over Amtrak service. Does anyone hear know of such a company?



> He held him over because he's a spineless lapdog
> that has been Peter Principled, never has thought
> of conequences beyond 10/1/05, that was sickly,
> wants a pension boost, and does what he's told.

Couldn't agree more. I've had the impression for a long time that Mineta is anti-Amtrak.

if this country relies so greatly on something as crappy as Amtrak then it was WAY to late years ago

your past hero clinton gave less to Amtrak than anyone and he made a ton of cash selling satelite technology to china....none of you fools said a word

Amtrak sucks get over it....best answer is take it out back and shoot it

I think I better use up my guest rewards points this spring!