Railfan Technology > Questions for the Ham/radio heads

I have had enough with my scanner. Poor reception. I've been reading that many have moved to using 2 way radios or Ham radios and using them as scanners. Which makes sense. I have a few questions.

1. I have noticed that some of the Ham radio manufacturers make what they call "Communications Receivers". They seem to be wide band super scanners. Is this true? I was checking out a ICOM IC R-10 model. I really do not want to buy a 2 way as I never want to talk. Any comments on Communications Receivers? Do they pick up as well as a 2 Way?

2. 2 Way radios - Some have commented that that is the way to go. Can anyone recommend a dealer that is railfan friendly? I am considering buying one but obviously need it programmed with the RR freq's. I am looking for a small handheld that has an LCD display so I can see the freq being used. So you can get these 2 Ways to act like scanners so to speak? They can scan a variety of freq's? Can you lock out frequencies? and can you set a priority channel on them too?

Thanks. I know there are allot of questions.

Bruce

The receivers you mention generally have the same issues as a scanner. Since they have to be "opened up" to receive signals across a wide frequency spectrum, they tend to lose selectivity and are subject to receiving a lot of interference.

As to commercials, find a reputable two-way dealer, and they should be more than willing to sell you a radio and program it for you. Or you can buy the radio and buy the programming cable and software to program it yourself. Either route is costly, but you can get a top-notch radio. For a commercial rig, I still recommend the Kenwood TK-290 for a hand held and the TK-790 for a mobile. Both can be set up to scan and will do so at blazing speed. Search by my name and you will find several posts about these.

As WW said steer clear of the wide-band receivers. Kenwood, Icom, and Yeasu all offer 2 meter handhelds that will receive the RR band and ALL of them will blow the doors off any scanner.

PowellWye

I recently picked up a Yaesu VX-170. Nice and compact with a long battery life before a need to recharge. Harder to program than any scanner I've ever owned, but really not that complicated. I'm still not convinced that it picks up any better than the Regency HX-1000 I also have. But then, the HX-1000 puts any other handheld scanner I've even seen to shame. Not a bad price either. Usually in the $125-150 range.

Baltimore

Not all the 2 meter or dual band handhelds have equally good reception characteristics, there's a big difference between my two handlhelds in how they do around different types of signals. I would make the same assumption about the communications receivers but haven't shopped for one or even looked at them for years.

I knew as soon as I typed "any scanner" that someone would bring up the fabled Regency HX-1000/1200/1500. I have to say that Regency HX's are similar to the new 2 meter HT's as far as sensitivity goes, but the new HT rigs excel in selectivity. With all the RF activity bouncing around in most environs, selectivity can't be overlooked - unless you like listening to intermod. Regency's early programmable HT's were actually built by Azden, the former ham radio manufacturer. The HX's certainly were top shelf in their day - I still have both a HX-1000 and 1500 that I just can't get myself to part with.

As far as programming the VX-150 or 170, simply change the VF0 step to 15 kHz and you can enter all 97 AAR channels into the radio in about 10 minutes.

If your only interest is in hearing the RR broadcasts, it would be hard to beat a "ham" handie-talkie

(such as the Yaesu VX-170) on a price-performance basis. I'm not a fan of the dual band ham radios

(ones that cover both VHF and UHF.) Although they are useful for listening for "FRED" (EOT)

broadcasts, they are more likely be affected by signals you don't want. This is an issue when you

are in an urban setting, if you are in a rural setting, not to worry.

The ham band "handie-talkies" are more difficult to program. This is mainly due to the multitude

of functions that hams may use that are of no interest to a railfan.

Most of the manufacturers offer computer-assist programs and cables (at what I consider to be a

pretty hefty price for something you will typically use but once) that make programming a snap.


The commercial units such as the Kenwood unit described by another poster are superior but

require the services of a technical person at a dealership to program.


Perhaps you may reconsider your aversion to getting an amateur ("ham") radio license. It is

astoundingly easy to pass the "test." All you need to do is to have a pulse, pay a small fee to

the examiner and remember the answers to a handful of questions. Once you have a "ticket," you may

be immune to "scanner laws" and will be part of a fraternity of service-minded folks who

have been at it for nearly a century.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

I've covered this somewhat in earlier posts, but since the VX-170 was brought up, I thought I would give the performance comparison with the TK-290 Kenwood commercial radio. For comparison, the VX-170 I use is equipped with a Smiley Stubby Duck gain antenna cut to 160 mHz. The Kenwood TK-290 is "stock." So equipped, the VX-170 can be had for less than $200 with charger, etc. The TK-290 would run probably $700-$800 for the 160 channel unit with keypad. Add a rapid-charger, and programming software and cable and you're pushing $1,000. Big price difference. Does the TK-290 beat the VX-170 across the board for performance? Yes. Selectivity on the TK-290 is as good as any commercial radio I've seen. The VX-170 is less selective, but that is not to say that it isn't pretty darn good. For sensitivity, the Kenwood is better than the VX-170 with a stock antenna, but not hugely better. With the Stubby Duck, the sensitivity of the 170 to weak signals still does not match the stock TK-290, but the difference probably would be barely discernible for most users. The TK-290 is a lion on audio output--full audio volume is almost painful. The VX-170 isn't as loud, but it's better than any other amateur rig I've used--and it makes scanners sound totally wimpy.

Both are very good radios. One has to decide whether the superiority of the TK-290 is worth the extra cost over the VX-170. For most users, I would say not. I use my TK-290 with my business band license--otherwise the VX-170 meets most all my railfanning needs.

One advantage of dual-band radios is that both bands can be set for 2-meter and two railroad frequencies can be monitored at the same time. I've done this when I've waited for a train to leave the yard, when its alternating between the switching and road freqs. In addition to my Icom hand-held,I have a dual-bander mobile rig in my truck, too, so there's been times when I've been monitoring four freqs at once.

I have a Kenwood TK-290(160 channel), great radio all the way around. I have used it for Ham, Public Safety, and RX on the rail band. I picked mine up for around $300.00 on eBay. I have my own programming cable and software also. I also used to have a TK-790, another great radio but I sold it. I wish I hadn't because my Motorola Spectra won't scan over 16 channels. The TK-790 would scan them all. I try to stick with commerical radios. Alot(if not all) ham radios don't have a priority scan and if you talk on a channel you have to put the radio back into scan.

Tim K.

timkilbride Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a Kenwood TK-290(160 channel), great radio
> all the way around. I have used it for Ham, Public
> Safety, and RX on the rail band. I picked mine up
> for around $300.00 on eBay. I have my own
> programming cable and software also. I also used
> to have a TK-790, another great radio but I sold
> it. I wish I hadn't because my Motorola Spectra
> won't scan over 16 channels. The TK-790 would scan
> them all. I try to stick with commerical radios.
> Alot(if not all) ham radios don't have a priority
> scan and if you talk on a channel you have to put
> the radio back into scan.
>
> Tim K.


One of the most interesting "tests" of scanners and ham radios that I ever witnessed was at Rochelle, Illinois a few years ago. When a detector went off or there was talk between a train and the DS, some of the radios would pick it up, some would pick up parts of the transmission and some would be completely silent. There was such a variety of scanners, ham receivers, booster amps and antennas that you could not draw any solid conclusions except that the antennas and those with an antenna pre-amp seemed to work the best.

Pepperidge

Powell, since you are a Regency owner/user your faux pas can be excused(1000, 1200, 1500 here) ;')

If money isn't a stumbling block then I would also suggest a commercial radio. I saw it mentioned above that: Any reputable dealer will sell it to you and program your freq's. Or something to that effect. Sounds odd to me, since our dealer always calls us before programming our freq into radios purchased by our subcontractors, and other RR's we interchange with have asked for letters of permission before their radio people program our channel to their HT's. On the other hand, all of our base and loco radios are sold with all AAR freqs programmed, with no questions asked.

In answer to trainmaster3, commercial radio dealers are reluctant to program transmit frequencies into radios other than those frequencies that the user is authorized to use. For railfanning, the transmit frequency is not needed, only the receive frequency, and those can be programmed independently. It is not illegal (in most jurisdictions) to monitor frequencies, so the dealer probably wouldn't object to programming the 97 AAR frequencies for receive only. Where "scanner laws" are in place, the monitoring issue gets a little more dicey. The best way to confront that is to become a licensed amateur radio operator--in most jurisdictions possession of an amateur radio license trumps the scanner laws.

I shall utter the two unmentional words: Radio Shack.

I've been playing with VHF radios for 51 years, since the days of the Gonset Gooneybird. I purchased a Radio Shack PRO-97 recently for $150 new and it performs as well or better than the rest of my VHF/UHF gear. It is very durable and is computer programmable. The battery life is better than any handheld radio I have ever owned. It is quite different from the scanners that RS had manufactured for years in South Korea.

ron K6KYJ

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
> The best way to
> confront that is to become a licensed amateur
> radio operator--in most jurisdictions possession
> of an amateur radio license trumps the scanner
> laws.

"Most" jurisdictions? Are there actually some where this is not true? Does a local jurisdiction have the *authority* to enact a law which trumps the license, or would it have to be a federal law?
Thanks,
-Wes

There are a variety of states and cities that have enacted laws that appear to contravene the Federal Laws and Rules regarding reception of various broadcast frequencies. Even LA has one but AFAIK it has never been enforced. Although if Freddy the Fire Foamer keeps showing up with scanner and getting in the way it might some day happen.

Any jurisdiction can pass any law and it can be enforced until the Court of proper jurisdiction finds the law is unconstitutional, overridden by State or Federal law, etc. Most of the time these restrictions on scanners or mobile radios get thrown out, but it does require somebody or some group to have the necessary standing to go to court over it.

Most areas they aren't enforced unless somebody really asks for it, because the jurisdiction isn't too confident of winning, and most law enforcement agencies have better things to do with their time anyway. Also most scanner enthusiasts try to avoid breaking the laws as being the test case is not going to be cheap in either time or money, also most of the laws have a Ham Radio exception, so getting the Ham license is apretty good way of insulating yourself from the laws.