Railfan Technology > Let's Talk Night Rail Photography

O Winston Link and Gary Knapp I ain't. Frankly, I pretty much suck at after dark railroad photography. So, I'm looking for ideas and suggstions, and about good technique. A few things to start. I can't light up the eveving with a ton of flash lighting, and I'm looking specifically to photographing moving trains, about 30 to 40 MPH, in pretty low light. I'm not looking for the "streaking" effects, but to capture a decent, useable photo. I use a Canon 40D model, and wouldn't mind buying a "long range flash, if needed. So, as Joan Rivers would say... Can we Talk? Let's hear and see how you guys do it, and what gear you use, and suggestions to get good photos in the evening, if it's evn possible.

John R

Dang near impossible to stop a moving train at night even with some available light. I would not pop a flash at an approaching train! I don't think that the crew would appreciate it at all! You might pull it off with quite a bit of available light and an extremely high ISO setting and a very fast lens, but you will most likely get a lot of digital noise. Best bet would be to catch one stopped for a red signal and shoot it with the camera set on manual mode.
This should be an interesting discussion.

Bob

chuchubobnv said...

> This should be an interesting discussion.
>
> Bob


You've ask a really tough question. Think of it this way. You're trying to capture light and if their "aint none to capture, you ain't goin'a get a picture!"

OK, I got that off my chest, what advice can we offer? Take a look at the night photos here on TO.com. You either have
1.) streaks, and you said you don't want that,
2.) still photos, but you said you want moving trains,
3.) flash, and I agree, popping one of those at a train crew would not be very polite. Also, with the flash you tend to get an overly exposed reflective tape and the rest of the train is dark because you just don't have enough light to expose it properly.

So what can you do? Like Bob said, go for the ones that are stopped. They can look like they are moving. A train moving at 30 MPH will be moving about 44 feet per second. If you use 1/10 second exposure on a train moving at 30MPH it will travel 4.4 feet while the shutter is open. Depending on how close you are, even an inch can make a picture pretty soft looking. Four feet is pretty unaccpetable unless you're shooting something 2 miles away. Increasing you ISO to 1600 or 3200 will help but you are going to get more noise (looks more like a sand painting than a fine photo) in the photo. There is software that can help reduce the noise in the files. Another option is a big hole in the front end of your lens, f/(smaller numbers). That big hole is going to put a really big hole in your bank account. The standard kit lens for my old SLR was an f/1.8 but I opted for an f/1.2 and it came in handy a few times.

You say you want some "decent, usable photos" in "low light." One question is "what is 'low light' in your situation." That could make a difference. Also, what angle are you shooting the train at? If it's sort of straight on you could do a bit better than you might do with a train passing at 90 degrees.

Anyway, here's my suggestions. Start with a tripod. That wasn't mentioned but should be a no brainer. Also, include a remote release. Increase the ISO as high as you can, or as much as you can and still get the decent photos you want. Save your images in RAW format. You can salvage some very low light in the RAW files and you can manipulate the files to sometimes save an otherwise unusable photo. If you under expose a bit you can adjust the RAW image to somewhat correct it and in the process you might be able to use a slightly shorter shutter time. Try to catch the trains with as much light as possible. Again, using RAW and other software techniques, you might be able to take a lighter photo and make it look like the night shot you desire.

Yep, this should be an interesting one to watch. Thanks for making us scratch our heads. I think a bunch of us are going to learn from this one.

John

I'm more in to timed exposure but just to add examples, first a moon lit nite 30 seconds prior to departure
28mm, 13 second exposure, on F5.6 ISO 100, 2nd photo little late on the camera release at 115mm, 1.60 of a second F5.6 at ISO 200.
Unlike some I do not use flash,or more additional lighting techniques to get my evening photos. Just what ever light is available. If you time the shot right you can get the train stationary and then departing, or a standing/stopped train and then layer the movement shot first. I do not recommend going over 400-500ISO The 40D foes generate noise at high ISO settings. Good luck hopefully someone else will post like Cimascambler he's a night owl..Ken

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My opinion -

First think about a fast prime lens. Very overlooked but good to use. A 50mm 1.8 can be had for cheap. 85's and 35's are more. This will give you 2 stops over a average zoom.

Second - think about the 30-45 minutes before and after sunset.
This is great light, more even, some blue in the sky and you would be amazed how much color
certain equipment will pickup from the sky. Many of the city scape "night" shots you see professionally will be shot at this time. There is plenty of ambient light around.

Third - scouting for locations with good artificial lighting. You main subject will be lited by this key light with even a little ambient light after sunset providing fill light of the background areas.

Bob

The first shot shows the use of available ambiant lighting and taking advantage of a stopped train. This was a long exposure (on the "bulb" setting". I got very lucky on this one. The last cars can be seen streaking down the hill but the hump power sat still during the whole exposure. This shot made me $250.00!
In the 2nd & 3rd shots I took advantage of a stopped train and ambiant lighting from a pipe factory that sits right across the road from the tracks. This is just east of the yard in Provo Utah.

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Another "trick" that I've used is to Shoot a stopped train and photoshop the headlights and ditchlights "on" for the visual effect. Some folks think that this is "dishonest", but I don't care. I'm not presenting evidence for a court case. I look at most of my photography as artwork and I will take some artistic license to acheive the visual effect that I'm after. I don't lie about it. If someone ask how I "got the shot", I'll tell them. I don't say "I caught these guys going through Big Stone Gap, at 30 MPH, at 4:00 in the morning.
I will add one more thing. I agree with a previous poster. If you are serious about wanting to get into night photography, you need to get serious about shooting RAW and honing your "Photoshop" skills. None of my night shots looked the same coming out of the camera as they do here on TO.com.
Night photography can be very rewarding and it is a lot easier than what it looks. It just needs some practice and you would be surprised at what you can come up with by doing some experimenting and being willing to break a few "rules".

Old Bob out in Lost Wages

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chessie-2117 Wrote:
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> I can't light up the eveving with a ton
> of flash lighting, and I'm looking specifically to
> photographing moving trains, about 30 to 40 MPH,
> in pretty low light. I'm not looking for the
> "streaking" effects, but to capture a decent,
> useable photo.

What you want to do doesn't really sound possible without the use of at least two or more flash units strategically positioned to frame your photo. Unless you're at a location that has something comparable to stadium lighting, freezing trains at that speed and getting half decent results is not likely to happen. It also depends on how you define a "decent, useable photo." It's no secret there are many levels of photography and everyone has their own standards. Take a look at some of the sample photos people have posted and if you take a liking to any of them, then try their technique(s) out. Here's a shot I got at the beginning of the month using a friends flash setup.

http://www.parailfan.com/Images/Sightings/081108/cp_5978_31j_110808_resize.jpg

If you are not into filling up the scene with a lot of flash, the best bet for still images (no streak) is to set up near a frequently used passing siding and wait for something to go into the siding for a meet. If you time it right, you can get the train with the headlight off. If you time it right, you can also get it with the headlight on for the last bit of the exposure so it doesn't blow out the highlights.

Signals are great still subjects. Moonlight is a good light source if you don't mind 4-10 minute exposures.

I have a 24mm f/1.4 lens that works well on my Canon 40D with the ISO set to 800 and the long exposure noise reduction working. Fast lenses set wide open don't give you much depth of field, so you have to be careful with focus (use the LiveView on the 40D to focus).

Things like bridges or freight cars on sidings with stars behind them are also a nice subject. Use the 500/f formula for stopping star motion: 500 divided by the focal length of the lens you are using is the longest exposure that will stop sky motion. Example: 24mm lens, 500/24 is about 20 seconds. 20 seconds at f/1/4 and ISO800 gives great stars. Add a little moonlight (not full moon, that will blow the sky too bright) to light the bridge/railcar/signal mast and you are in business.

Check out my web site for more into and sample images - lots to learn there.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kitathome/LunarLight/index.html

- Kit

Kit Courter
Menefee, CA
LunarLight Photography

On my recent trip out west, I photographed the Amtrak Station in San Diego just after sunset using my Canon 400D with my 18-55mm zoom lens set at ISO 800 with an exposure of f4.5 at 1/60th of a second shutter speed. One beautiful thing about digital is that it's able to "find light where it don't exist" so to speak! It was getting dark really fast when I managed to get this shot in before I would have had to get out the tripod and cable release to get this type of shot.

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Another approach is to find a place where the trains pass slowly and there is decent ambient lighting. I've got a few shots on my Flickr account of the IAIS in downtown Des Moines. Settings on my 40D were ISO 1600, f/4, and a shutter speed of around 1/30th. It isn't enough shutter speed to stop all motion, but it will stop most of the motion of the train moving at around 10mph. The lighting is entirely from parking lot lighting.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhardecopf/

Also see this shot at around the same settings, lit only by street lights:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhardecopf/2727381054

-Justin

Someone mentioned "stadium lighting." If you walk into a modern college or professional level stadium you might be surprised at how little light there really is. The attached photo was taken at a high school game. My team, the team in the red won. These two teams have played each other for over 100 years. I've been to about 40 of the games.

Now, getting back to the original subject. This was a high school game played at the University of Louisville's "Papa John's Cardinal Stadium." It's a 10 years old stadium, seats 42,000 and is home of the U of L Cardinals, a class 1A football team (not doing great this year but that's a subject for another forum.) I offer this information just to qualify the next statement. The place has tons of lighting for night time events and has hosted several night time network football events. Even with all of that lighting, it's dark in there at night. It might not seem dark to your eyes but if you measure the light, it's dark, at least for taking pictures. The attached photo was taken with a Canon XTi, 70-300mm IS lens. Settings were ISO=400, shutter 1/60, f-stop 5.6. The camera was handheld and I was panning to keep the subject in the frame. I'll admit, that part was not the best situation but the main subject in red and at least two of the defender were fairly sharp. I recorded the image in RAW and was able to get probably 2 more f-stops out of it on the computer.

Rarely, if ever, will you have as much light at night as I had when I was at that game. If you set up a bank of ten 500w halogen work lights, you would be amazed at how little light you actually had unless they were 10 or 15 feet from the subject and all clumped together. The football players are moving much slower than the 30 to 40mph you are targeting.

Here's a link to a photo I took a few weeks ago. Shutter was opened 1.6 seconds, ISO 400, and the f-stop was about 5.6 if I remember correctly. It was taken in the evening after the sun went down but there was still some light in the sky. A little earlier and I could have got some of the orange sky and had a better picture. Someone mentioned that also. That was my intention but I just couldn't get there in time.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1810356

One other interesting note about the stadium. For 90 years the location was the "South Louisville Shops" of the L&N railroad.

Take a look at some of the other photos on to.com.
http://www.trainorders.com/images2/view.php?319580 is a good example.
Or look at the night photos at http://members.trainorders.com/california_railfan/index.htm
I don't think you're going to see anyone catching a 30 to 40 mph train at "night." Evening or morning may work for you but night is a real problem. You have to capture a certain amount of light. Either you capture a bright light for a short period or a weak light for a long time (or something in between) to create an image. You can fill a gallon bucket with a fire hose or a dripping faucet. One will take an instant and the other will take a long time but if you need a gallon of water to do the job, you can't do the job with only a half a bucket.

Again, this has been interesting. I've been looking it since you first posted the question. Now just go out there and play with a few thing, post them here, learn, and you'll find a something that's probably not exactly what you wanted but something you can be proud to show everyone.

John

BTW, I'm sure not an expert on these issues. Pay attention to some of the really professional types have to say.

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chessie-2117, I used a paint by light method to capture this scene. If you would like the technical details (camera setting, light source, etc.) send me a private e-mail.

Martin Utah. August 4, 2006.

I have previously shared this photo on TO.

LK in AZ

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Her is a link to a some night pictures
http://www.e-buzz.se/forum/showthread.php?t=21885
and a few more here
http://www.e-buzz.se/forum/showthread.php?t=21886

Note that the ore train pictures are taken in the middle of the night but in summer above the arctic circle where ther is no real night at that time of year.

Take a look at these:
http://www.trainorders.com/contest/night1/
http://www.trainorders.com/contest/night2/
They are from the 2004 Trainorders.com photo contest. The subject was "Night Railroading."

John