Railfan Technology > Aftermarket scanner antenna?

I'm currently using a Radio Shack Pro 404 hand held scanner for my fanning. 
I really don't have many complaints about it, but if I did it would be that I can hear
the dispatcher more than the train? When I hear the train there is a lot of static it
seems. Would an aftermarket antenna help make things clearer? If there is even such
a thing as an aftermarket antenna for this model? Thanks for any input!


Jay

Benched_it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm currently using a Radio Shack Pro 404 hand
> held scanner for my fanning. 
> I really don't have many complaints about it, but
> if I did it would be that I can hear
> the dispatcher more than the train? When I hear
> the train there is a lot of static it
> seems. Would an aftermarket antenna help make
> things clearer? If there is even such
> a thing as an aftermarket antenna for this model?
> Thanks for any input!
>
>
> Jay

You might want to describe your conditions. Unless the train is close (within 5 miles, for example), it's normal for the dispatcher to sound clearer than the crew, because the dispatcher's radio signal usually has better range due to the fact that it's transmitted from a radio tower with some elevation.

That aside, an antenna designed to handle the railroad frequencies (160-161 MHz) will usually perform better than whatever antenna that came included with your scanner. There have been many discussions of antennas here in the Railfan Technology board, so if you don't get a response right away, you can search around and look for the answer.

I bought a Diamond RH77CA antenna within weeks of purchasing my Uniden scanner, which came with a "rubber ducky" antenna. Made a big difference.

I was approx four miles away last night in the house. I've was trying to catch
the ID of a train that's running at night because of track work during the day. I 
thought to myself the train isn't THAT far away, surely I should be able to hear
the crew better? That's why I was asking about the antenna. 

I always do a search before posting and I did find some things, but nothing
specific. I have the "rubber ducky" antenna (about 8" long?) that came with
it and that's another reason I was wondering about it. Thanks for your help,
I really appreciate it!


Jay


cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You might want to describe your conditions. Unless
> the train is close (within 5 miles, for example),
> it's normal for the dispatcher to sound clearer
> than the crew, because the dispatcher's radio
> signal usually has better range due to the fact
> that it's transmitted from a radio tower with some
> elevation.
>
> That aside, an antenna designed to handle the
> railroad frequencies (160-161 MHz) will usually
> perform better than whatever antenna that came
> included with your scanner. There have been many
> discussions of antennas here in the Railfan
> Technology board, so if you don't get a response
> right away, you can search around and look for the
> answer.
>
> I bought a Diamond RH77CA antenna within weeks of
> purchasing my Uniden scanner, which came with a
> "rubber ducky" antenna. Made a big difference.

I tried a couple of after market antennas for my handheld Radio Shack scanner through the years.  Each of them was tuned for the 160-162mhz range.  While I never tried a specific test of which one was better, I know that each of them got more distant signals than the 'stock' rubber-ducky antenna that came with the radio.  Oh, and one of them required an adaptor to make the BNC connection (found it on Amazon for $3-4).  As it turned out, I whacked that antenna on something and broke the adapter, so I bought another and am more careful with it, as that's the one I generally use.  One antenna was a good 2 feet long which made it very difficult to deal with, especially while riding Amtrak!  As far as what brands and models I tried, I don't have a clue.  I did a seach on this site and this discussion for 'scanner antenna' and came up with a good list to try. 

I did, however, make a simple test or two to see what I could get.  As a CSX Intermodal employee until I retired a year ago, I'd set the Motorola radio in the company pickup truck to the road channel while I was verifying an inbound train.  Regardless of where I was in our yard, I could clearly hear the defect detector about 5 miles away.  A couple of nights, I had my scanner in the truck as well.  It never picked up the detector, regardless of antenna.  However, I'm sure that having my radio inside the truck was part of the cause why it didn't get anything.  I should have tried a couple of times holding it outside the truck, but never did.

In my opinion, to really test antennas, one must be able to receive a fixed-location transmission at some distance.  In my case, having a defect detector 'handy' would be the way to really test it.  Perhaps some day, I'll pack it up and see what I can receive from 3 miles with each antenna, then maybe 3.5, and keep going from there.  Of course, the 'key' is knowing when a train is passing the detector.  Perhaps a friend with a cell phone would do the trick...

A good fixed location transmitter near the RR band is the National Weather Service Broadcast in the 162.4x range. A local broadcast should be available to just about everybody and works well for a go/no-go test of cables or obvious fixes. Picking up the next distant transmitter tells you that you've made an improvement. Working with hills and valleys or indoor to outdoor gives a bit of an understanding of what's going on with the reception and possible problems. Just listening to the Audio is a very simple test, empirical test, but it's free.

This is all very good info, I'm going to use these tips to research it more. Thanks
so much, I really appreciate it!


Jay

There are several ham band antennas available and while not exactly designed for 161MHz, they will perform quite well.  The ham band they are intended to work in are 144-148 MHz and 430-450 MHz.  An antenna cut specifically for 161MHz would perform slightly better.  There are some good options available manufactured by Diamond, NCG, MFJ, Comet and others.  A few years ago I having the same issues that you are having and I did the upgrade.  Here's the results of my test.  I gave some model numbers in that article but you might need to check that you order the one with the BNC connector.  It's probably different than what I listed.  All of the antennas discussed are about 17" long.  They are a bit awkward if you try to carry a scanner in your shirt pocket but work great on your belt or hip pocket.  Just remember to take it out of your pocket before you sit down or get in your car.  They all fall in the $20 range with MFJ probably being the least expensive.  There are several good dealers.  AES has about a dozen stores around the nation and will ship from the closest store with the product in stock.  HRO is another large dealer.  R and L, Gigaparts, Universal, and others can supply your needs.  You could call any of them and tell them you want the antenna with the BNC and they can make sure you get the correct model.

Just remember, as Somme else said, the dispatchers are in a position to talk to trains all over their territory, maybe 40 miles on each side of them.  A train is only interested in talking to the dispatcher, the conductor fixing a brake line 50 cars back, or a passing train.  They have no need to talk to the train 35 miles past the station or yard.  VHF radio (161 MHz) is basically "line of sight."  You don't have to be in viewing range but you might not be able to talk to someone on the other side of the hill or mountain.

Hope this helps a bit.

John

 

This helps so much John, thank you!


Jay

My advice--subject to the major caveat I will describe below--would be to purchase either a Smiley gain antenna tuned for the  160-162 MHz  or a Laird EXH-160 Series antenna equipped with a BNC connector.  Either will improve signal strength entering the radio. 

Now, the bad news.  Most scanners, especially the less expensive Uniden and Radio Shack models, have extremely poor selectivity--that is, the ability to reject unwanted interference (RF interference).  Using a more efficient antenna will just let more of that RF into the radio which it likely can not quiet.  The result is a lot of audio noise, which can not be silenced, except by turning up the squelch, which, of course, will also silence weak signals that you want to hear.

That is the crappy part of using a scanner vs. a good amateur or commercial radio.  It's easy to build a radio with good sensitivity.  Most of today's scanners have fair to good sensitivity.  The difficulty (and higher cost) is building a radio that has BOTH good sensitivity and good selectivity.  Most of today's amateur radios and, especially, today's commercial radios are built to that higher standard--scanners almost never are.

Also, comparing a hand held scanner equipped with a rubber ducky antenna to a high quality mobile commercial band radio with a vehicle antenna tuned for the frequency is a ridiculous comparison.  Even the most efficient rubber ducky antenna pales completely in performance compared to a mobile antenna correctly mounted on a vehicle.  Comparing a scanner's performance with a high-quality commercial band radio is equally as ridiculous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/16 08:14 by WW.

For good all around reception, the RH77CA is pretty decent for a consumer antenna.  VHF and UHF reception is surprisingly good which is handy for monitoring voice plus the Freds and engines' telemetry.  I'm a ham and work trackside as a volunteer for Amtrak - I've used lots of different commercial radios and antennas.  The Diamond does a good job.  The Smiley is more durable and shorter as are the commercial antennas, but the Diamond has a small advantage in sensitivity.  The downside:  the RH77CA is lightly constructed and will snap easily above the BNC connector if dropped.  Always have a spare !

One thing to consider when using a hand held scanner with a rubber ducky or even one of the aftermarket antennas in a car, most guys find much better reception if they do not put the scanner in the center consol cupholder or whatever on the center consol. I have friends that use aftermarket drink holders that you can slide into the side window track and put the scanner there, next to the side window. Another option is if you are parked you can put the scanner on your dash. Both the side window and dashboard placement will give you better reception.

Posted from iPhone

I've used nothing but Smiley antennas cut for 160 mHz with excellant luck. Nice people too!
Russ

I'm going to look into the Smiley antennas as well, thank you for that info!
The only reason I have the scanner I do is because it was the one I used
when I went to the races. I was into Na$car long before trains and if I knew
then what I know now I would have bought a nice one. At least with the info 
ya'll have provided I have a better idea of what not to do. Thank you for all the
help, it's greatly appreciated!


Jay