Railfan Technology > New antenna

Hello all,

I am looking for a new antenna for my Pro-528 scanner. I have a radioshack t telescoping whip antenna that works but its not the best for listening to the San Diego Sub. Last night the DS was pretty static. I got the Hot box detector ok and the Orange Sub ok but at times I could barely make out what the San Diego DS was talking. So I am looking for a new bnc antenna that I simply can carry around the scanner and is tuned to the railroad band. I tried scanner master last night but they had antennas that were made for a wide range of frequencies so I am not sure they would be any better than what I have now or not. Or should I plunge in and buy a I-com or Nexedge radio? I was wondering if the software and firmware would work for Windows 10? I also have a older windows 7 system too. Please let me know.

Thanks,

Kurt

Telescoping antennas do a really good job if you set them to about 18 inches, many will say better than a rubber duck antenna can ever do. But they are rather mid-evil looking and can easily be bent and broken.

Went to google and typed in '162 MHz rubber duck' and found a number of products listed but also a TrainOrders thread on the topic:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,3935333

I've been buying flexible antennas from GigaParts, Antenna Farm and a few other places including Amazon and Frys, simply do searches using that phrase or something close. I would think ScannerMaster would have plenty. Ideally 162 should be in the middle of the specified band, they are out there but usually for receive / hobby scanners only. Typically 20 to 30 bucks or less, easy to experiment if so inclined.

The cell-phone era theories are that the optimized exposed length of the antenna provides the best performance, given such things like line loss, VSWR and mismatch loss are under control. Such as a short tuned rubber duck vs 1/4 wave antenna (assuming everything else is equal). That's why cell phones can transmit enough RF to hit the nearby cell towers even though they are all wrapped inside the handheld phone. This Wiki has some explanations but it gets awkward quickly, with references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_aperture

A good way to compare two RR band antennas is to use the NOAA weather radio broadcasts, find a marginal reception location and then try the different antennas. There are much more scientific methods.

No idea about PC compatibility but try searching the TO archives, I'm sure it's been discussed. Let us know how it works out, there's lots of radio scanner people who want to know.

Kurt,

If the telescoping antenna is in good repair and you don't mind
the length, I'd keep it. If there is nothing amiss with the
scanner and the connection between the antenna and the scanner
is OK, extend the telescoping whip until the distance from the
upper part of the BNC connector on the telescoping whip to the
extended tip is 17.5."

If you have a friend who is a ham and has an antenna analyzer,
such as a Rig Expert AA-170 or MFJ-259 it may be possible to get
a additional bit of performance.

A way to check if the connection is OK is to tune the radio to
a NOAA weather channel in your area.
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/Maps/index.php
Find the weakest one that will can be reliably heard and
wiggle the antenna with a non-conductive stick like a
wooden yardstick. If there is breaking up, the connection
may be bad.

The telescoping antenna at the proper length will get you close
to picking up much signal as is possible. It will get more
signal than a "rubber duckie" of shorter length.

Some things to try:

If you are outside, placing the scanner on the roof of the car
may improve reception.

Or, place the scanner in the center of an "X" made from aluminum
foil with each piece being about 20" long by whatever width you
have handy.

Fasten a length of insulated, flexible wire (20-18 ga) 18.5" long
around the base of the scanner's BNC connector. Strip about 1"
from the end that goes around the connector and twist or solder
the wire (don't solder to the connector) so that when the antenna
BNC connector is pushed down to lock it in place, it makes contact
with the wire so the wire does not move. This provides an ad hoc
counterpoise and may help a little and may work whilst you are walking
about.

These things to try will likely provide only a small improvement but
are inexpensive to implement.

If you wish to purchase a scanner, Icom and Kenwood make a decent product
although I am partial to Yaesu.
My observation is that the Yaesu 270 has become a very common ham
handheld radio used for RR reception. As there are so many of them out there
and many of the good people on TO use them, there is pool of folk who can
help with any issues that may turn up.

If you do purchase one, get the RT Systems programming kit. Easy to use
and the people at RT will answer your questions over the phone.

Run away from BaoFeng, Woxhoun and the other cheapies. They are very tricky
to program and some of them have peculiar, non-standard connectors which
require equally peculiar and expensive adaptors should you ever want to
use an antenna other than the "rubber duckie" that comes with the unit.

Honest merchants include:

DX Engineering

Universal Radio

Giga-Parts

I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

(This post composed whilst good guy TnCR was posting.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/17 16:56 by K3HX.

Thanks guys for all of your input. I have deciced to purchase a Diamond RH77CA from Amazon today to see how it works. If I don't like that one I'll try the one from Smiley that is telescoping for the meantime. In the future though I am considering getting a new commercial radio for the NXDN change over at some point. I will need some help with programming the radio for both narrowband and digital in the future. I am trying to decide between Icom or Kenwood. I would like to get one that supports alkaline batteries because I am not a real fan of rechargeable batteries. I will let you know how the antenna works out hopefully it will be better than the one I have. One thing though is that I get a lot of Intermod with the telescoping antenna. I was going by on coast hwy yesterday and it was just terrible.

Anybody try one of these yet:

http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-000511

PulseLarsen KD4-160-HQ
160 MHz Helically Wound 1/4 Wavelength Antenna - BNC Connector

Kurt,

The problem with intermod most likely lies within the radio.

I think you will find a new radio will provide a considerable
improvement in this area. By the way, Yaesu offers a battery
CASE that holds AA alkalines as does Icom and Kenwood.
Having a battery CASE is a good idea. I've had them for all
my hand-held radios for those times when the PACK runs out
of power.

The battery PACK is the sealed rechargeable battery that comes
with the radio. Most of them are of the lithium-ion type that
last longer and are less heavy than the Ni-Cad types they replace.

Some other accessories to consider when you purchase the radio:

A cigar lighter charging cord. This will allow you to run the
radio off the automobile battery and charge the battery PACK
at the same time. A circuit in the battery CASE keeps this cord
from trying to charge the AA alkaline batteries.

If you have model railroader level soldering skills and equipment,
you can make your own at a considerable savings over the cost of a
factory item. PM me and I'll send instructions.

A speaker-mike. This is a microphone with a small speaker that you
can clip to your collar. If you hear something, all you need do is
cant your head over a bit rather than removing the radio from your
belt and holding it near your ear. Comes in handy when both hands
are busy with the camera. An earphone does much the same but blocks
some ambient sound.

The speaker mike with the maker's brand name will cost about half
again as much as one from MFJ (mfjenterprises.com.)
My experience is that the MFJ model works just fine.

Whatever radio you choose, be sure it is capable of storing memories
in "banks." In this case, a bank is a set of memories that can be scanned
much more quickly than going through the whole AAR channel list.
For example, let's assume you visit Alpha Jct and know that the AAA railroad
uses channels 05 29 and 78 while the ZZZ railroad uses channels 14 and 65.

You could configure a bank such that only channels 05, 14, 29, 65 and 78 are
available to be scanned. Scanning this limited number of channels is a lot
faster.

When you visit Beta Yard, select a "bank" with the channels in use there.

Typically, there are about 10 memory banks available on each radio.

The catch is that they can be confusing to program, I'd urge you to buy the
RT Systems programming kit for whichever radio you select.

The radios you are considering have many features that are of no use to railfans.
Some of the features of use to ham operators can defeat the operation for
railfan purposes if not disabled or bypassed. When you get your radio, post here
and the folks will help you know which features to keep and which have to go.

If you are computer-savvy, there is an freebie programming site called
"Chirp." I've not used it as I lack computer skills but several of the folks
in our ham radio club have had good results.

Well, since you will soon have a ham radio.....

SHAMELESS PLUG FOR AMATEUR RADIO!!

ARRL.ORG

Morse code is no longer required.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

I've covered NXDN radios extensively in other threads--do a search for those. For programming, yes, you will need assistance. I've been programming NXDN radios since around 2010 and it is still a time-consuming process. NXDN radios have literally hundreds of options and settings, nearly any one of which, if programmed incorrectly, can cause problems. Also, no two people want their radio programmed alike, so there really isn't a "one size fits all" NXDN program setup for railfans. Finding dealers who are knowledgeable in NXDN programming isn't easy, either. NXDN has not caught on hugely with most other radio users besides the railroads, so many dealers have little experience with NXDN radios and programming.

Now, as for which brand is better--Kenwood or Icom--there are things that I like and dislike about both. Both brands of NXDN radios are used by the railroads. Icom seems to be getting a bit of a lead in sales to the railroads, likely because the Icom NXDN models are usually a little less expensive than comparable Kenwood models. Because of the way that the two manufacturers control their dealer network, it is more likely that one can find a discounted price on an Icom NXDN radio. Kenwood commercial radios can seldom be found at much of a discounted price. I've found little performance difference between Kenwood and Icom NXDN mobiles. I've yet to do an extensive side by side comparison of the Kenwood and Icom NXDN portables, though people that I've spoken with who have used both haven't perceived much performance difference.

The "flagship" NXDN models used by the railroads are the Kenwood NX-210 and Icom IC-F3261DT portable radios (the IC-F3161DT was the predecessor radio to the 3261 and is still available, though likely out of production by now); and the Kenwood NX-700 and Icom IC-F5061DT mobile radios. All four radios have a railroad firmware package available, but that firmware is seldom available for purchase by the general public and I don't recommend the railroad firmware for a railfanning radio. Why? Because it allows the radio to transmit on any railroad channel, and that capability can not be disabled in the software programming, a dangerous feature for a railfanning radio.

As for portable antennas, I still prefer Smiley Slim-Duck antennas or Laird EXH-160 antennas (tuned to the railroad band). My caveat still holds when it comes to antennas: a poor-performing antenna can make a good-performing radio perform poorly, but a good antenna will generally not make an otherwise poor-performing radio perform much better.

OK thanks guys again for the info. I have checked out the Yaesu's site for radios and I must say they are nice radios but they are only wideband and the railroads are using narrowband. I know that for the meantime its okay to use a wideband radio even though the railroads are using narrowband but when they add the splinter channels this could be a problem. Now they may not add the splinter channels until they move to digital I just don't know. As for the NXDN radios I was interested in the Icom 3262DT or the NX-210 radio but it sounds like its going to be very difficult for me to program it properly so I am not sure I will get those then. I may have to wait and hope that a company like Uniden will create a NXDN radio that is good for railfanning when they switch to digital. I am going to try my new antenna RH77CA when it comes in and see if it works better if it doesn't I will get the smiley slim duck 160MHz then since it's made for bnc connections. The Laird was made for another type of connection that isn't compatible with bnc so that is not a option for the radio I have.

Thanks,

Kurt

The Laird EXH-160 can be ordered with just about any portable antenna connector. The three letter suffix to the EXH-160 (EX-160MXI, for example) identifies the connector. As for the Smileys, they usually come with a universal thread on the connector with a thread-to-connector adapter enclosed with the antenna for the model radio that the antenna will be installed upon. There is probably some minimal signal loss in the adapter setup. My experience with the Laird and the Slimducks so far as physical failure is that the Smileys tend to fail at the antenna connection and the Lairds tend to fail in the shaft of the antenna.

Also, a comment about the Chinese radios. Their biggest drawback is squirrely programming and inconsistent quality and performance in different different radios of the same model. I've had a couple of BaoFengs that performed well and are tough as nails. I've also had good luck with the one Wouxun commercial portable (the KG-UV6X) that I use, but I know some other people that have had performance and longevity problems with the same model radio. Another oddity is that the stock antenna on my Wouxun performs as well as the Laird or Smileys and is about half the length. The Wouxun KG-UV6X is a fairly compact radio and, with the stock antenna, makes a nice package for railfanning in tight quarters--for example, when riding Amtrak. It does have some quirky features and that alone would keep it off my recommended list, however.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/17 20:18 by WW.

Hello,

I have received my new antenna and on the most part I am happy with it so thank you for the info. It does a nice job trackside and in the house I get the dispatcher better. However I have noticed that when I am trackside I can hear BNSF better calling out signals through San Clemente. When I am at home which I live about a mile above the tracks on a hill the BNSF is very soft and very difficult to hear if they even talk at all. However I get Metrolink and Amtrak talking going along the coast. So does BNSF use different radios than the passengers? I should try my moble gain antenna and compare it to this one at home and see if it brings it in any better or go outside with this one and see if they talk outside in the backyard. The only problem is my area now effective last year is a quiet zone now so I don't hear the horns like I use too. I am also thinking of a new radio as well. A Uniden Bearcat BC125AT. Here are the specs:

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/scanners/0125spec.html

Tell me what you think please. It looks like its pretty sensitive. It also looks like it has narrowband capabilities. I think it would be a good radio to upgrade from my pro-528 scanner from radioshack that has 0.5uv in the railroad band. I think this will be good until they switch to digital. Any info would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Kurt

A late post to this thread, very interesting info on here.

I use the Diamond 77CA with a BNC on my handhelds. The spring is more positive than the Smiley (I have 5 of those) which is a good antenna but has not quite the gain of the 77CA. DPUs and FREDs are strong signals on the 77CA as well as the 160 MHz voice channels. Great performance with just one antenna which is a real convenience.

The 77CA cannot take a beating, however. I dropped the radio just once up on Donner and the 77CA snapped in half right above the BNC connector. I am disappointed it is not more rugged, but the performance across a wide spectrum of frequencies is a real help, so I bought some spares just in case!

Rick Somers
KK6EL
hamming it up since 1971