Railfan Technology > Canon Mirrorless Cameras and New “R” Series Lenses

Anyone have any real world experience or thoughts on the Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera?  I try and keep up on the latest offerings and what works best, but am still trying to decide if it's really worth the upgrade.  Is it really better than my current 5D Mark 3?  Does the new image sensor give better results  like Canon says it does?  Or is this just Canon's ploy to make more sales and get people to switch!   Also, are the new R lenses better, sharper and faster than the now "old" EF lenses?  I currently own two of the sharpest zoom lenses I believe  on the planet.  The EF 24-70mm f2.8L II and the EF 70-200mm f2.8L II.  If these new R mount lenses are sharper and faster as I've heard tell, well I'll have to see it before I believe it.  I know mirrorless cameras are the way of the future, but are they really worth the upgrade?  I've read all the reviews from the B&H website and they all seem positive for the R series camera and lenses, but again, people can say anything.  I want to know how they perform and measure up in the railfan world.  Pros and cons and everything in between.  Please feel free to chime in on your experiences.

Thanks in advance!

DPReview.com

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DPReview.com

Yes, I've read it.  I know all the tech talk and the specks regarding the outfit.  But what I want to hear is from a fellow railfan who has actually used it firsthand for our particular field of endeavor---railfanning!   That, to me, is the real proving ground and true test of it's performance.

This site has alot of pro photographers that discuss gear, 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/

Under the forum heading, go down to "gear talk", choose "Canon"
and there will be multiple postings regarding the R5.

I've bought and sold multiple items off the "for sale" board
with great results.

 

Personally, am not sold on the new Canon mirrorless system, at it's price point, when i own a 7D MkII for video and 5D MkII for stills. Along with EF L-series lenses (x4).  I would like to rent one of the R Series, using my EF Lenses and see, if it as good as all the hipe.  As I approach 70 years old, its not convincing enough yet, for me to spend those kinds of funds.  Just how many pixels do you really need.  The largest print I would ever do is 20x30.  Not whole sides of buildings for the world to see.  I'm sure some need it, but sometimes, i think, i's more about bragging rights?

Dave

CNW8531 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DPReview.com
>
> Yes, I've read it.  I know all the tech talk and
> the specks regarding the outfit.  But what I want
> to hear is from a fellow railfan who has actually
> used it firsthand for our particular field of
> endeavor---railfanning!   That, to me, is the
> real proving ground and true test of it's
> performance.

Think you might prefer the R6... there can't be many railfans with the funding for a R5 or the need for 45 megapixels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/21 17:11 by exhaustED.

I bought one of these. But to be honest, it's too much camera for me. I just don't know enough.
I mainly chose one in this line because I ...
A  Like how fast Canons boot up. When your trying to grab a shot sometimes those seconds count.
B. I wanted to be able to use an external mike for video. This was a big thing as there always seem to be wind noise where
good train filming locations are. 
If I had it to do all over again I think I would have just bought a video camera, and used my lower high end point and shoot.
Battery life is also not great.

I know that doesn't help with you decision; as you sound very professional, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
My photo education was from sitting in the back of the classroom at Brooks Institute, while class was in session, working
on their phone system lol. Thank gawd they had alot of OPXs  (off-prem phones) 

Noted the Canon Mirrorless Camera R5 Pro Kit offered for $5705 at Walmart.  Wow, that's a mighty high price for a new Canon Mirrorless Camera-!

Canon EOS R5 Mirrorless Camera W/ 24-105mm f/4L Lens 4147C013 - Pro Bundle

video7105 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, am not sold on the new Canon
> mirrorless system, at it's price point, 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/21 12:10 by cozephyr.

Having been in the photography profession for two decades I've shot every pro body Canon has produced in the digital era.

Body: I'm currently on my third 5D Mk4 after wearing the two previous models out.  I've also shot every 1-series except for the last, as what I shoot no longer requires that level of performance, and dollar expenditures!  As a member of Canon Profesional Services (CPS), I had the shutters replaced for my own peace of mind at ~130k activations even though they're rated for 150k, and I know from experience will shoot well past that number.  Next year I plan to change out equipment and pick up the R6 with the 24-105, and a new R-series 70-200 f2.8L, mostly for the tax depreciation it brings; otherwise I wouldn't consider changing. I've put around a million shots through my Mk4's and remain totally in love with them! The basic differences between the R6 and the R5 are sensor size, weather sealing and some very high level video features that, unless you're truly a hard core user wouldn't matter to most of us. The R6 body is around $2,400k whereas the R5 is $3,500, the difference being primarily the sensor size. Both are full-frame sensors, but the 6 is 20MP and the 5 is 45MP. With my 5D I've always shot trains in the mid-size RAW setting, which is around 28MP.  My needs simply do not dictate shooting at the larger size.  If I don't need a 30MP file, why would I spend an extra thousand dollars for a file that's half again that large!?  Coming from the 5D Mk3 you will experience your biggest difference simply because you're moving into the latest series of sensors.  The difference between my Mk3 and the Mk4 was astouding!  (You might consider buying a used Mk4, they're very affordable now that everyone is jumping on the mirrorless wagon.)  The Mk4 has a DIGIC 6+ whereas the newer R5 is equipped with the latest DIGIC X.  One thing the new R-series bodies bring is IBIS, In Body Image Stabilization...and it's a HUGE win for me as a railfan as it augments the Image Stabilization that was previously lens mounted.  All the tests I read say there is an 8-stop effective shake reduction.  I've hand held my Sigma 150-600 at 1/30 second and gotten great results.  Not perfect, but for web purposes certainly acceptable, this from a shooter that deletes anything if it's not crisply focused with no camera movement.

Lenses: in real world applications, like actually making prints from our digital files (who does that anymore, right?), and large size prints like 30x40, my current L-series glass is superb, and the newer lenses bring no improvements.  The only way anyone could discern a difference is if they looked at the results from a test bench with very sophisticated testing devices.  Current lenses already produce detail in lines per inch that is greater than our human eyes can resolve.  I'm buying new lenses only because after three rebuilds for the 70-200, it's time to retire it.  

I hope this helps.  Please feel free to PM me, or simply call 918.527.1109 and I'll help in any way I can!

Blessings!
Jerry
ATSF5669

I want to thank each and everyone of you who have responded to my quest for information.  You have all helped and I appreciate your inputs and I try and digest everything I read.  I'm still on the fence and probably will be for several months until I feel it's the right decision to upgrade.  And that's if I decide it's the right move.  You have to temper what you really need as opposed to what you simply want just because it's new and you think it would be neat to have.  My current arsenal of camera and lenses works just fine.  Do I really want to spend several grand for a whole new outfit?  Simply put, is the upgrade really worth the investment.  I'm not sure it is right at the moment.  That could change over time though so all options will remain on the table.  But I want to thank everyone again for your help and information you provided.   Knowing and sharing information amoung us is truly the way!

CNW8531  

Before making the leap to mirrorless, I recommend first trying the camera at a brick-and-mortar store to determine how well the electronic viewfinder suits your style.  Personal experience:  I made the mistake a few years ago of purchasing a Sony A99ii SLT (Single Lens Translucent; but it has an electronic viewfinder and not an optical viewfinder), mainly because I was a legacy Minolta shooter that migrated to Sony when they (Sony) acquired Minolta's imaging business.

I found that the EVF on the A99ii was unsatisfactory for much of my shooting due to its latency or "lag" between bursts of shooting action.  The faster the subject was moving, the worse the EVF lag was.  After shooting a burst, then recomposing and re-focusing for another burst as the train continued to approach, the EVF was displaying my first burst in a slideshow effect rather than an accurate and continuous view of the "real world."  The camera wouldn't allow me to recompose and re-focus until the slideshow effect was finished and the buffer cleared.  I made sure to use the fastest memory card I could find, but evidently it wasn't fast enough.  Ultimately, I returned the camera and switched to a Nikon D850.

On a related note, another issue I had with the EVF of the A99ii was the lack of dynamic range it displayed:  It gave me overblown whites and crushed blacks.  The images themselves, though, were just fine when written to the memory card.

With all that said, and as camera systems continue to improve, I expect EVF lag/latency will be less and less of a problem as more bandwidth gets built into the product and sensor technology advances.
GK 

 

TheNavigator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before making the leap to mirrorless, I recommend
> first trying the camera at a brick-and-mortar
> store to determine how well the electronic
> viewfinder suits your style.  

Most likely I would rent one for a week or so from either "Lens Pro To Go" or "Borrow Lenses.com."  I've done that before with various high end lenses so I could try them out first.  But even that can run about a grand or so if I rent a camera and a lense or two for a week.  Not sure I'm ready for that even right at the moment.  There's one last option I'm not ruling out if I decide to make the switch at some point.  If I do decide to go mirrorless and need a new camera and lenses as well, I'm not locked into Canon just because my current equipment is Canon.  I would certainly consider Nikon or Sony as well if I have to buy all new stuff.  For now though I've got a lot to think about.  And again, all your help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

Some good comments on the topic already.  About a year ago, I wanted to upgrade an older Rebel to have 2 full frame bodies (other is a 6D).  My thoughts bounced around all the Canon choices. I didn't want to replace lenses at the same time.  I ended up choosing the R6.  I still use my EF L lenses with the RF EF adapter.  I didn't see enough advantage for replacing the glass.  I thought by now there would be more 3rd party lens options but am about giving up on that.  I'm sure the RF glass is great but the EF L glass is good too.  The biggest advantage for me will be the carrying around size and weight of the RF lens.  I expect I'll end up with either the 24-70 or 24-105 eventually.  As far as using it, after 50+ years of SLR's, the EVF was a little hard to get used to.  I sometimes still have a half second of confusion when I put it to my eye without reactivating it and see a black viewfinder.   You get used to it.  I like how the EVF acts like a preview shot but that takes some getting used to also.  It can be dark if the settings aren't right since it is not a wide open view like SLR's, kind of like pushing the depth-of-field preview on my old film cameras.  The autofocus is amazing.  maybe not as important for railroads but is very impressive shooting jets at an airshow or grandkids running around.  It is spot on and fast.  And covers the whole sensor.  I've used it with the Canon 24-105, 70-200, my old nifty 50, and a Sigma 100-400.  No issues that I've seen with the adapter.  One negative not directly on the camera is that I have used Canon's DPP software for images shot with a digital camera and only use Photoshop for scans and the rare hard core editing if a digital image needs extra work.  The CR3 files although around the same size as the 6D CR2 files bring my PC to a crawl.  I've read that is a pretty common complaint for DPP users.  I'm looking to upgrade my software and computer hardware.  Although it's slower I really enjoy the wireless image transfer over plugging a cable into a jack or taking the card in and out to put in a reader.  I don't like handling those things with connectors; they have a limited number of cycles.   All in all, no complaints about the choice.  It's fun to use.  The 6D is a perfectly fine body but feels a little clunky now.  

Dave Beach
Independence, OH

crr200 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some good comments on the topic already.  About a
> year ago, I wanted to upgrade an older Rebel to
> have 2 full frame bodies (other is a 6D).  My
> thoughts bounced around all the Canon choices. I
> didn't want to replace lenses at the same time. 
> I ended up choosing the R6.  I still use my EF L
> lenses with the RF EF adapter.  I didn't see
> enough advantage for replacing the glass.  I
> thought by now there would be more 3rd party lens
> options but am about giving up on that.  I'm sure
> the RF glass is great but the EF L glass is good
> too.  The biggest advantage for me will be the
> carrying around size and weight of the RF lens. 
> I expect I'll end up with either the 24-70 or
> 24-105 eventually.  As far as using it, after 50+
> years of SLR's, the EVF was a little hard to get
> used to.  I sometimes still have a half second of
> confusion when I put it to my eye without
> reactivating it and see a black viewfinder. 
>  You get used to it.  I like how the EVF acts
> like a preview shot but that takes some getting
> used to also.  It can be dark if the settings
> aren't right since it is not a wide open view like
> SLR's, kind of like pushing the depth-of-field
> preview on my old film cameras.  The autofocus is
> amazing.  maybe not as important for railroads
> but is very impressive shooting jets at an airshow
> or grandkids running around.  It is spot on and
> fast.  And covers the whole sensor.  I've used
> it with the Canon 24-105, 70-200, my old nifty 50,
> and a Sigma 100-400.  No issues that I've seen
> with the adapter.  One negative not directly on
> the camera is that I have used Canon's DPP
> software for images shot with a digital camera and
> only use Photoshop for scans and the rare hard
> core editing if a digital image needs extra
> work.  The CR3 files although around the same
> size as the 6D CR2 files bring my PC to a crawl. 
> I've read that is a pretty common complaint for
> DPP users.  I'm looking to upgrade my software
> and computer hardware.  Although it's slower I
> really enjoy the wireless image transfer over
> plugging a cable into a jack or taking the card in
> and out to put in a reader.  I don't like
> handling those things with connectors; they have a
> limited number of cycles.   All in all, no
> complaints about the choice.  It's fun to use. 
> The 6D is a perfectly fine body but feels a little
> clunky now.  
>
> Dave Beach
> Independence, OH

I've gone totally Canon mirrorless -  RP (bought open box) and 2 - R6 bodies (bought both used at a local shop) with lens adapters which i've also found used. Have a few RF lenses when i've found them cheap, or could upgrade via sale of unused or duplicate EF glass. (such as EF100 macro L to RF100 L macro) Have tons of EF L Glass, which work perfectly through the canon adapters. Autofocus is indeed quick and spot on. 50mm1.2L focuses better on R 6 than it did on a DSLR...weird. Overall, Don't regret it at all. EVF doesn't bother me. Shot lots of local community events. Far more keepers than I got with my 5D4 and 5D3.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/22 16:50 by dirkb.