Western Railroad Discussion > How does a "flange-bearing frog" work?

In the November 2008 issue of Trains magazine, on page 19, is a photo of a "flange-bearing frog," stating that it "guides the wheels into a turnout, reducing wear caused by banging across typical frogs."
In the photo it looks like there is no gap at all in the straight rail, so the wheels would have to climb over it to get to the diverging route. There is also am extra piece of steel on the outside diverging rail that doesn't look like anything I've ever seen. Evidently i am missing something here. Could anyone please explain to me how this works?

There is a ramp that the Flange rides up on and over the other rail with just the smallest groove to hold it in line , Most are 5 MPH over them

QU25C Wrote:
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> There is a ramp that the Flange rides up on and
> over the other rail with just the smallest groove
> to hold it in line , Most are 5 MPH over them

I've been through them at 50 MPH.

A quick google search found there are two different types in use. The first only allows high speed on only one of the crossing tracks at the diamond. The other track is reduced to 10mph max. This is called an "OWLS"

The other system allows track speed for both tracks crossing at the diamond. This seems to be the Flange Bearing Frog.

Pretty interesting stuff.

BNSFhogger Wrote:
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>> QU25C Wrote:
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>> There is a ramp that the Flange rides up on and
>> over the other rail with just the smallest groove
>> to hold it in line , Most are 5 MPH over them
>
> I've been through them at 50 MPH.


On the diverging, flange bearing side? And, it didn't toss you on your side? Did it sober your up?

Yes, the rail yields on the diverging route and is on kind of a spring apparatus and returns to the original position after movements have gone through them. I did do a doubletake the first time I went through one.

Let's not confuse a spring frog with an OWLS frog.

OWLS is an acronym for "one way low speed".

On an OWLS diamond, the low speed line railhead is a few inches higher than the high speed line's railhead, with notches in the low speed line's rails such that as the wheel crosses the high speed line the weight is carried by the flange.

There is a "bump" as low speed wheels cross the gap left for the high speed traffic flanges.

No such bump for the high speed traffic.

For Sacramento area fans, one of these OWLS diamonds exists (or did a few years ago) just west of downtown Sacramento.

My fading memory is that the railroad name for that particular diamond starts with a letter K, but I'm probably remembering that incorrectly.

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With respect to a spring frog, it is as described in the post immediatly above this one.

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Other varieties of frogs include self-guarding frogs, and maybe more.

Best regards to all.

Good link here: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/rts0507/
of flange bearing 'crossovers'

Also a good discussion of frogs with photos on another railroadforum . . . 'Dogh

Nice information/photos/charts here on flange-bearing frogs:
http://www.arema.org/eseries/scriptcontent/custom/e_arema/library/2008_Conference_Proceedings/Update_on_the_Use_of_Flange_Bearing_Technology_in_Special_Trackwork_2008.pdf

Fred Harrison
Central Point, OR
CORPpower/JSS/EORS

> one of these OWLS diamonds exists
> (or did a few years ago) just west
> of downtown Sacramento.

Probably at the SN xing at Mikon?

(So, two diamonds for the two Cal-P tracks.)

Yes at Mikon

ChrisB


timz Wrote:
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> > one of these OWLS diamonds exists
> > (or did a few years ago) just west
> > of downtown Sacramento.
>
> Probably at the SN xing at Mikon?
>
> (So, two diamonds for the two Cal-P tracks.)

Yes, Mikon is the name I was incorrectly remembering
as starting with a K.

It does have a k in it though.

Best regards to all.

Can somebody post a photo of Mikon taken with Kodak?

Or maybe use a Nikon?

I agree with Moose in his posting about this type of frog. I too looked at the picture and I'm having a difficult time trying to see just how helpful such a device is given that the wheel flange is on the inside of the rail and it hitting the frog would seem to derail the entire wheel. If there is such a small groove in the frog to "guide" the floange, where is it as the photo in the same TRAINS magazine, I saw nothing that even suggested that the frog was helpful ??

How does this type of frog work as compared to the standard frog ?

Most standard frogs I've seen has the flange just slicing thru the frog inside of a groove. The frog shown in the magazine didn't have the groove in alignment with the flange.

How can going "up & over" the frog be more helpful if the groove in which the flange rides thru is altogether different if not there at all ?

Figure 3 in the PDF gives a fair idea. We're looking along the low-speed track, which has maybe a four-inch gap in each of its railheads (allowing the wheels on the high-speed track to run thru without any bump). When the low-speed wheel is running thru that four-inch gap, it's riding on its flange across the head of the high-speed rail.

The truck doesn't derail because the guard rail on the rail opposite the frog keeps the truck in line.

check this thread out on TO....moveable point frogs.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,1819796

KevO

Mikon, CA

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I worry about the impact these types of "crossings" have on wheels, especially those of cars that are heavily loaded. A typical car loaded to 286K applies roguhly 36,000 pounds of force on the rail at each wheel. But the contact spot for a wheel is only about the size of a dime, IIRC. So a typical wheel would exert a force of about 143,000 pounds per square inch. Going through one of these devices would put all that weight on an even smaller area, perhaps a tenth of a square inch, so the car might exert a force of 360,000 pounds per square inch at the rail-flange interface. As a flange nears the end of its usable life, it becomes thinner than one on a new wheel. This only magnifies the problem. Also, if there is a problem with the flange or the rail at the point where the flange rolls acoss it, this would certainly bring any such defect to one's attention VERY quickly.