Western Railroad Discussion > Generators

Has anyone heard of older locomotives being sold to be used as generators? I don't know that much about electricity but would locomotives be a practical generator?

Panama Canal Railroad runs an F40 on their stack trains which provides 3 phase 480 volts to the cars for the refer containers.

It was a consideration when California had the rolling black-outs. Other industries throughout the US looked at the possibility, but the idea was ultimately abandoned. It was considered in the industry I worked in, as electrical power was essential in processing. Without it much of our products would spoil. Flat bed generators were put on the campus in case. This was a few years ago.

I know that they have been used to supply emergency power at times. I believe that locomotives were used to supply power to some towns in eastern Canada several years ago after an ice storm had taken down a large portion of the grid. I am not sure what has to be done to have 60 cycle or at least close to 60 cycle power. Also, you would need to have a transformer to have the right voltage where you tap into the grid.

Also, I think that some of the ex-BN cabless GE units were bought for emergency or portable power generation but I am not sure what happened with this scheme.

Several years ago, a massive ice storm knocked down high tension lines and cut power in Quebec. CN provided a locomotive to at least one town for use as an emergency generator. In California, the Sierra Railroad purchased a batch of ex-BN B30-7A B units with the intent to use them as portable generators, but that idea fell through.

I remember a story on CNN that amtrak used a loco for generator power in New Orleans after Katrina at there station.
JC

The only time I know of is when the SP had two U33C locomotives (8653 and the 8669 I think) stored at the roundhouse at West Colton to be used to provide electricity for the yard in case of a power outage. They were used two times that I know of. They would bring the locomotives up to the electrical grid (if that's what you want to call it) just east of the Admin building and some how hook the engines up to the system by using what looked like big jumper cables and rev the engines up to about run 4. Not sure but I think they only used one at a time but I could be wrong. As far as I know it worked as once the power went out in the yard and the natural gas generators took over which only ran the necessary appliances to keep the yard going until the locomotives could be hooked up to the system. Like I said, it seemed to work but the company only used it once or twice before they got a bigger generator.

JDE

This has been discussed here before, years ago.

At West Colton, in the roundhouse area, there were 2 (or just one?) Alco's 'at the ready' to supply power to the yard. I also understand they could be "plugged-in" to the City of Colton grid, if needed for the city. I don't recall if they are still there. IIRC, they may have disappeared a few years ago. New hires always used to ask "What are those THINGS for?"

(Mr.) SteamJocky would know more than my 'pea-sized' brain can remember right now.

Take Care, Stay Safe, Have Fun!

Larry

EDIT: I guess John and I were typing about the same time! Try this old thread.. <http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,47871#msg-47871&gt;

The small local Power Cooperative serving my town and the local counties have 18 EMD 20V-645E8 Diesel gensets strategically placed in pairs around their service area. When a Tornado made a hash of the local power grid the pair in our town ran for 2 weeks straight supplying the local power while the mains and distribution lines were replaced.

Not necessarily locomotives as generators, but I know for fact that in the Bahamas on Abaco, the power plant there uses a handful of EMD 16-645 prime movers to power the island, when I was down there last I took a tour of the facility. They told me at the time (2000 or so) that they were anxiously awaiting the delivery of 6,000 hp prime movers from GM in the near future to replace some of the aging V12 non-EMD units. I have a picture of them somewhere. I will have to dig it up. It was nice though, stuck on an island for 2 weeks with no trains, but drive past that power plant and listen to the sound of turbo 16-645s runnin' wide open was the medicine I needed.

DoctorEvil
- Justin Englert
Summerville, SC

"I'm the boss. Need the info."

EMD's engines have a long history of being used for power generation. When I worked for EMD in the 1980s lots of diesel engines were sold for this type of application, but I don't recall them ever using the EMD alternator for power generation. I'm guessing it would work, but would not be good for this use. If you really wanted to use an old locomotive for power generation I would think you would take the diesel engine and auxiliary rack with the oil filter and such. Then I think you wouild be better off putting them on steel frame and attaching a new alternator and radiator. You could sell all the rest of that steel for scrap.

Stephen

rfdatalink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EMD's engines have a long history of being used
> for power generation. When I worked for EMD in
> the 1980s lots of diesel engines were sold for
> this type of application, but I don't recall them
> ever using the EMD alternator for power
> generation. ...
>
> Stephen

Back in the late 60's my father was construction superintendent for a nuclear plant in upstate New York. They had 2 20V-645 diesels for emergency backup power. He told me that they kept the engines at operating temperature by circulating hot water thru them and had air starters that would roll them to full RPM in 4 seconds and that they could be online at full power in 7 seconds.

Back in the early 1990's the company I worked for installed large automated warehouses for the airline industry. At least one airline I know of had us hook in a large airline style connector to the 480VAC line so they could pull up an airliner and power the warehouse if the grid went out. I suspect they were going to use an intermediate transformer. A 747 probably puts out a lot of electrical power.

When I was in the USCG from 1968 to 1972, I served aboard a Secretary Class Cutter (WHEC 721). We used EMD 567C's as the ship's main generators. They had a power take off attached to power the starting motors for our Main Gas Turbine engines.
We liked those generators until it came time to clean the airboxes!! Two-cycle diesels run dirtier!

1997, midwinter, was when CN ran two old ALCo switchers down the city streets of a Quebec city and lit up the town for a week. Ice storm took out power over lots of Eastern Canada. Switchers were ready for retirement, and were damaged a bit on their off-track journey and were not returned to service (as I recall).

Sierra Railroad was the outfit that bought the old BN B30-7Bs and brought them to ?Bakersfield CA? for power generation during the brownouts a few years back. Story by the Sierra Prez (as i recall) is that the state reniged on a few agreements, leaving Sierra hlding the bag for the loco purchases, and almost going bankrupt as a result--they successfully negotiated with the state for a smallish payout that took the bite off the loss.

One of the B30-7Bs was up in Woodland, CA last week, perhaps as backup power for the Sacramento Dinner Train. It looks like a snapshot from 10-15 years ago--green paint and BN logos still fresh-looking, and no graffiti.

Ted in Davis

At West Colton locomotives (anything will do) have been used when the air compressor fails. Lots of air is needed for retarders, switches, and yard air.

A slightly different turn here. I have a photo in a magazine showing the L&N HQ building in Louisville during the 1937 Ohio River flood. The HQ building was across the street from the passenger station and even had a few tracks with bumpers that terminated right behind the HQ building. The basement of the building was flooded and they couldn't light the boilers to heat the building. (The flood happened in January.) Most of Louisville was flooded but the tracks between HQ and one of the roundhouses was passable. Anyway, the L&N ran some heavy passenger steam locomotives up to the back of the HQ building and the pipefitters extended the building's steam heat system out to the tracks where two "portable boilers" were spotted to heat the building.

John

railstiesballast:

I guess you remember a few years back when they had those two units parked next to the compressor house to supply air while they repaired the stationary ones. That track was OOS for awhile!

Take Care, Stay Safe, Have Fun!

Larry

If I remember correctly when I went up to the top of Sears Tower sometime ago someone said they had 4 EMD Generator sets in the basement of the Tower for stand by power.
ATSF100

Yes, the Sears Tower has four EMD 20-645E3 standby engines. Marine versions of the 20-645E3 (with a special deep sump crankcase and other marine modifications such as pressure relief crankcase covers) are quite common on some of the large 1,000 footer ore boats on the Great Lakes.

You can use an SD40-2 to produce 3-phase 60 hertz 480 volt power by reconfiguring the generator but all you will get out of the locomotive is roughly 2000 HP worth (1500 kilowatts), because the engine has to be kept at 720 RPM instead of it's normal 905 RPM maximum speed. The 720 RPM produces 60 cycle (hertz) output from the AR10 alternator.

You can similar tap the alternator on a Dash 8, for example, which will produce about 3000 HP (2238 kilowatts) at 60 hertz.

EMD sold a small number of GP38-2s (to the Roberval & Sagunay?) in Canada with 60 hertz tap points built into the front nose, so that the mining company could simply plug in 480 volt cables to provide emergency power for some mining machinery.