Western Railroad Discussion > Coos Bay, OR Container Terminal??!!

Recently a major Danish-American based shipper announced Coos Bay as a potential site for a new, mega-container terminal site. The Port is supposedly their top choice for expansion, in competition with a potential Mexican site. This is due to current high-levels of containers, and a projected 50% growth of shipping levels by 2014.
Well, the 100+ mile branch line operated by the Central Oregon & Pacific has a huge opportunity for inter-modal traffic with the proposal, supposing they (with state funding I'm sure) can rehabilitate the line, and the bay can be dredged to the depth needed to compensate new vessels. If indeed chosen for the site of the terminal, the port would be operational by 2014, and have over twice the volume capabilities of the current container port of Portland.
This scenic prior-SP branch could very well once again enjoy a life of prosperity and serve as a vital life-link to the modern-era of railroading.

I really can't see this happening due to the lack of major highways to and from Coos Bay. Do they plan on shipping most containers by rail? Are the tunnels on the Coos Bay branch large enough for doublestacks? Don't get me wrong I'd love to see this happen but I think there would be too many logistical problems for the ODOT to approve this.

What about Grays Harbor, WA? Better highway access, better rail line, and joint connections with BNSF and UP.

Just my thoughts.

-Dave

What about Klamath Falls, Oregon? Oh wait...No harbor...Then again, no "falls" either!

Cascade463

There are 3 potential locations listed for this terminal; Mexico, Canada, and Coos Bay.

Also has anybody been watching the company that bought the Rail America ORegon lines, and also watching Anchutz? All kinds of neat stuff going on there.

YM

Grays Harbor is a bad harbor for ship operations. Unprotected and shifting channels...a lot like Coos Bay, though. Insofar as tunnels,I think you could get away with single height containers if just one shipper is using the port. It would be a terrific help to the economically challenged southern Oregon port. From the sound of previous postings here, it doesn't sound like the local government is on board yet as some official referred o getting this port facility up and running as continually, "...kissing a frog waiting to have it turn into a handsome prince." I think that last was on a previous posting here

IF and it's a mighty big IF that were to happen I'd be willing to bet a certain class 1 would wish it still had the Modoc line still in place to move containers east without having to move them north in the already congested valley or south all the way to Roseville and beyond.
CORP GEVO's & SD-70ACe's anyone?


TCS - s.i.r.

TopcoatSmith Wrote:
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> IF and it's a mighty big IF that were to happen
> I'd be willing to bet a certain class 1 would wish
> it still had the Modoc line still in place to move
> containers east without having to move them north
> in the already congested valley or south all the
> way to Roseville and beyond.
> CORP GEVO's & SD-70ACe's anyone?
>
>
> TCS - s.i.r.


Uncle Phil had a dream of running Colorado coal up the Modoc and eventually out the Coos Bay Branch. However the funding never materialized for Coos Bay. There was a posting a week or two ago about keeping the abandoned Modoc Line as a future transportation corridor. Strangely the link to that article has been pulled or changed... http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/alturas/modocline.


.

Kiss a Frog

article in the Portland Oregonian Apr. 4


http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1175657137232970.xml&coll=7

jb

This also brings up the long-standing hopes to use the humbolt bay harbor for container ship use -- which would result in a similar revival of the northwestern pacific. there is a yawning need for more port capacity -- it will be interesting to see where it eventually is found.

Yardmaster Wrote:
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> Also has anybody been watching the company that
> bought the Rail America Oregon lines, and also
> watching Anchutz? All kinds of neat stuff going
> on there.

First I heard of either situation. Who bought the Oregon lines, and what's Phil up to??

tvrha Wrote:
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> First I heard of either situation. Who bought the
> Oregon lines, and what's Phil up to??


http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=rra&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=963386

Yes, CORP and the Port Authority are getting ready for something to happen in Coos Bay. Here are some photos of the new CORP rail on the Coos Bay North Spit Spur which goes west from Cordes. It's far, far nicer than the Coos Bay main line, that's for certain!

:) Fred Harrison

Fred Harrison
Central Point, OR
CORPpower/JSS/EORS

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I have serious doubts this container port idea will ever happen also but not because of rail or highway issues but rather "tree hugger" issues. The special interest groups who think if any big business, and even most little people, do anything it will bring on the end of the world are not going to let anything happen without a huge fight. Family jobs and a good economy mean nothing to them.

First Philip Anshutz had grand ideas when he acquired the SP to run coal traffic from Colorado and Utah, across the Modoc Line, and down to Coos Bay for export. That never materialized for a variety of reasons.

Then Nocor Steel (I think that's who it was) was planning on building a huge steel mill in Coos Bay. The big problem there was the lack of electricity to run such a large steel mill. The solution would have been to run high tension power lines from the valley to Coos Bay but the special interest groups got in the way of that and shot it down also.

I suspect these same groups will put up a huge fight over a container port as well and I would guess they'll be the largest obstacle to overcome if anything does come of this.

The bad part is that Coos Bay/North Bend has a huge workforce available and plenty of open space. The port itself is "deep water" and is protected from the ocean by the North Spit. And because it is literally right on the ocean, which means ships don't have to sail way up the Columbia River to Portland or through the Strait of Juan de Fuca to get to Seattle/Tacoma ocean transit time would be reduced. The Port of Coos Bay is potentially an undiscovered jewel if anybody can get past the tree huggers.

When the SP sold the Coos Bay Branch in 1996 it was in fairly decent shape, although many of the bridges were in need of "help". In fact a lot of us were wondering how they planned on running coal trains down there over most of those bridges. :-) I don't know what condition it is in under Rail America's control but from what I have seen it sure hasn't gotten any better.

Now as far as container trains, double stack cars shouldn't be a problem. Tunnel clearances down the branch should be the same as on the rest of the Cascade Line. Since "international" containers are the shorter version (I am almost positive the domestic containers are the "high" ones), they should be able to be stacked two-high and still clear the tunnels.

The biggest problems I see, other than "environmental" (according to the special interest groups) is more the condition of the bridges on the branch. Many of the bridges along Siltcoos and Tahkenitch Lakes are in need of work. Even when the SP had the branch 10 years ago some of those bridges had 10 mph speed restrictions on them and I doubt they have been repaired since then. And there's no question a LOT of track work would need to be done to bring the speeds back up to reasonable levels plus I would assume at least one new long siding would need to be built.

Another "rumor" I heard even when the SP had this branch is that there is a LOT of opposition from the maritime unions in Portland. They see Coos Bay as competition to them and their jobs so they could also play a role in all this. It will be interesting to see what might happen but down deep I doubt anything will come of it.

RB

Railbaron Wrote:
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> Now as far as container trains, double stack cars
> shouldn't be a problem. Tunnel clearances down the
> branch should be the same as on the rest of the
> Cascade Line. Since "international" containers are
> the shorter version (I am almost positive the
> domestic containers are the "high" ones), they
> should be able to be stacked two-high and still
> clear the tunnels.
>

Marine containers come in heights ranging from 8 feet to 9.5 feet (the latter same as domestic containers). Most commmon is 8.5 feet, next most common is 9.5 feet. The tunnel clearance is an issue. I don't know if the steamship line would be willing to start an inland-point intermodal service that cannot accommodate hi-cube containers.

If the Coos Bay Line clearances were raised to accommodate hi-cube boxes, then stack trains could go north to Portland and then east through the Columbia Gorge.

Best regards,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
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> Marine containers come in heights ranging from 8
> feet to 9.5 feet (the latter same as domestic
> containers). Most commmon is 8.5 feet, next most
> common is 9.5 feet. The tunnel clearance is an
> issue.

I knew there were different sizes but could not remember if one was strictly "international" or if the containers were all interchangeable for overseas export; I guess I know now.

In any case, even on the Cascade Line the only real problems come when two of the "large" (9'6") containers are stacked on top of each other, and even at that it's only one tunnel that's the problem (Tunnel 24 near Oakridge, and it has been "notched" but the restrictions remain in place). Although I have no "official" information, I imagine the tunnels on the Coos bay Branch should be the same dimensions as the Cascade Line. In any case, there is no question tunnel clearances could end up being a problem as there are a lot of tunnels on the Coos Bay Branch (including the longest tunnel in Oregon near Reedsport).

My 86/87 Clearance book shows the SP line #415 (Coos Bay) to have 8'3" clearance up to 18.9 ft high above top of rail. At 19' above top of rail then width drops to 7'6"