Western Railroad Discussion > Another day on the C&S and the ATSF Colmor Cutoff

Near the Siding of Grenville, not the town, the ATSF started building west to bypass Raton Pass. After building to Clayton,NM. trackage rights north to this spot and westward they went. Pulled up for the War effort. Came from Boise City, OK. Not sure of any more facts. BNSF 6015 pulls up to a stop at North Grenville to wait for the railgrinder to clear up.

qman and I went for a spin today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/09 22:31 by SD45X.

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BNSF 9732 North at the curve near the Approach signal at MP 319 to Grenville. Then to South Grenville to wait also. Mount Dora in the last shot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/09 22:19 by SD45X.

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First shot looking back from South Switch Grenville. The house on the hill is where the ATSF Colmor Cutoff ran west off the C&S.

Surprise, JNYFINB comes up behind and stops to wait also. UP 8523.

BNSF 9732 wiggles through the S curve north of Grande.

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Wow--very interesting history! I love seeing old roadbeds like that one--I had no idea. If the line was built to bypass Raton, why didn't the ATSF re-install the line after WW2??

6015 and 9732 drop downhill at Branson, CO. And the sun went into the hazy clouds.

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After the 9732 went by, I called it quits, and headed to the car. Then the sunset turned on. And I waited for the J train.

Twin Peaks sub between Trinidad,CO. and Texline, TX.

The mountains are called the twin peaks, or the Indian name, Waha Toya. Not spelled correctly, but that is the pronunciation. Translated, "Breasts of the Earth". I think the silicone shifted in one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/09 22:29 by SD45X.

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Coach Wrote:
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> Wow--very interesting history! I love seeing old
> roadbeds like that one--I had no idea. If the
> line was built to bypass Raton, why didn't the
> ATSF re-install the line after WW2??


Million dollar question.

Looks like fine day Mr. X! Great catch of the Boeing train too...

The Colmor Cutoff was never completely finished in the first place - in essence - it was a stub ended branch. The completed Belen Cutoff was appeasing the freight train volumes to the south; money was tight as well, thus the decision was made to abandon the project.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

SD45X Wrote:
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> Coach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow--very interesting history! I love seeing
> old
> > roadbeds like that one--I had no idea. If the
> > line was built to bypass Raton, why didn't the
> > ATSF re-install the line after WW2??
>
>
> Million dollar question.

SD45X Wrote:

> BNSF 9732 North at the curve near the Approach
> signal at MP 319 to Grenville. Then to South
> Grenville to wait also. Mount Dora in the last
> shot.

I've always heard the junction where the Santa Fe took off westward from the C&S referred to as "Mt. Dora." Mapquest and the topo maps show that name for the little nowhere place at the former junction, with Grenville a little bit further west on the C&S.

The existing line between Dodge City, KS and Boise City, OK, now part of the Cimarron Valley RR, would have been the eastern end of the proposed cutoff. Boise City's yard was laid out in an east-west orientation along this route, which is why the north-south line between Las Animas, CO and Amarillo, TX makes a crazy lightning-bolt zigzag as it passes through town.

I've heard it suggested that the purpose of the Colmor Cutoff wasn't so much to provide yet another way around Raton Pass for transcontinental trains. The Belen Cutoff was already in place by that time, and trains from the west would still have had to scale Glorieta Pass to reach the Colmor Cutoff. Rather, it would have provided an easier route east for coal trains loading at mines in the area around and south of Raton. There used to be lots and lots of mining railroads running off into the hills around Raton, most of which Santa Fe eventually acquired. In fact, one of them, the St. Louis Rocky Mountain & Pacific, had a route from Raton to the C&S at Des Moines when Santa Fe acquired the line in 1913, long before the Colmor Cutoff set out west from Mt. Dora. I've been told that the St.LRM&P line was steep and curvy and not suitable for main line operations, and if the squiggles I'm following on aerial maps are in fact the right-of-way, I believe it!

Interestingly, the Santa Fe Railway's Colmor Cutoff would have roughly followed the Santa Fe Trail's Cimarron Cutoff, a secondary branch of the trail created for the same reason the railroad had - avoiding the main branch crossing of Raton Pass. The Cimarron Cutoff was easier than the Mountain Route in terms of climbing, but it lacked water. For the railroad, it lacked traffic. Santa Fe only built as far west as Farley, NM, another nowhere place on the high plains, and at the time the track was pulled up from Farley to Boise City in 1942, the line was being served by a weekly mixed train.

The Santa Fe depot still stands on the east side of Clayton along US-56 as a residence, and a Santa Fe standard bunkhouse was still standing in Felt, OK when I came through in 1995, in addition to the impressive fills at Mt. Dora and near Felt that were clearly intended for something more than a light density branchline. I understand some railroad section houses still stand in Sophia or Farley west of Mt. Dora, but I've never had the opportunity to visit that part of the line. Looks like NM-426 shadows the right of way pretty much all the way. Gotta do that bit sometime...

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Thanks for posting SD45X. I'm heading out that way this fall!

Gary

The Colmar cutoff was begun in 1913 at Dodge City and construction continued off and on until work was halted in 1932 after the retirement of President Storey, leaving a 35 mile incomplete gap between Farley and Colmar, which is on the mainline south of Raton. 255 miles of the cutoff were built; had the additional 35 miles been completed, it would have been 66 miles shorter than the present 357 mile route between Dodge and Colmar over difficult Raton pass. Avoiding the pass would have saved nearly two hours in schedule, one crew district and all the extra helper power and crews that labored over the pass for decades. It would have paid for itself during WWII.
This shows how much a change of management can change a railroad. If the Colmar cutoff had been completed, it would have been around 65 miles shorter than the present southern freight main and perhaps made its doubletracking less pressing.

The rails were pulled up during the war because the cutoff was never completed.

dzeph Wrote:
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> The Colmar cutoff was begun in 1913 at Dodge City
> and construction continued off and on until work
> was halted in 1932 after the retirement of
> President Storey, leaving a 35 mile incomplete gap
> between Farley and Colmar, which is on the
> mainline south of Raton. 255 miles of the cutoff
> were built; had the additional 35 miles been
> completed, it would have been 66 miles shorter
> than the present 357 mile route between Dodge and
> Colmar over difficult Raton pass. Avoiding the
> pass would have saved nearly two hours in
> schedule, one crew district and all the extra
> helper power and crews that labored over the pass
> for decades. It would have paid for itself during
> WWII.
> This shows how much a change of management can
> change a railroad. If the Colmar cutoff had been
> completed, it would have been around 65 miles
> shorter than the present southern freight main and
> perhaps made its doubletracking less pressing.

Interesting analysis.

"Shorter" is not always more desirable unless it is also "faster", "easier" and "less costly". If the gap on the cutoff had been completed, the line still would have needed major depression-era spending to add signalling and bring it up to high-speed passenger or even competitive freight standards. This leads to my next point. Passenger train considerations usually dominated Santa Fe management decisions regarding the "Northern District". The routing via Raton had more on-line population as well as the then-important connection from La Junta to Denver.

As the other poster mentioned, the Glorieta 3% grade and 1880's engineering standards between Colmor and Albuquerque would have still been a major impediment to freight service.

Bob

Santa Fe management never let leaving off a population center discourage cutoff construction. The Ottawa cutoff left off Topeka and Lawrence. The Mulvane cutoff passed Wichita. The southern main missed Albuquerque. Construction across MO and ILL managed to avoid most cities.
The 3% eastbound Glorieta grade would remain, but it is relatively short. Helpers would have been required in steam days (eastbound only); with diesels the grade is short enough for modern traction. Between ABQ and Lamy the line is well engineered and quite fast, as is most of the route excepting Raton.
ATSF was a building railroad. From its inception in 1868 until 1932, it was building track somewhere every year. New management chose not to continue the Colmor cutoff, and the consequences remain to this day.
If Pres. Storey had placed the last 35 miles under contract before retiring, it would be a vital part of the ATSF trancon to this day.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm a new member and thought I'd add to it. These photos were taken at Farley, NM, around the first of October, 2012.

The first to pics are just east of the wye that was just east of town. The first one is looking west, towards, Farley. You can see where one leg of the wye shoots off to the SE. The 2nd pics is looking due east from the same spot. Sure didn't take much to build the grade and the materials were close at hand and I'm sure cheap. The last pic is on the west side of Farley, looking towards the EOT, which is approx 1/2 to the west of where I took the pic. If you go to the map quest link, you can see the grade/wye, etc., and if you follow to the W/SW past the EOT, you'll see where it would have connected to the main line south of Raton at Colmar. Colmar is south of Springer and about half way between there and Wagon Mound. I've seen very few photos of this line from Mt Dora to Farley, although the quarterly magazine of the SFHS had a write up on it a number of years ago and had some very interesting pics of Farley, the depot, etc. There is also a very good article on the history of the whole line, Dodge City, to Farley, in the archives of the same organization.


http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Farley&state=NM

I've got other pics of the area if anybody else is interested.

Eric

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Eric Wrote:
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>
>
> I've got other pics of the area if anybody else is
> interested.
>
> Eric

On T.O. never assume nobody is interested. I hinged on your photographs from the "static Photography" page because "Subject:" doesn't always hint at what lies beneath and I don't have time to look at all.
Yes I would be interested but start a new thread and put in a link back to this thread. You can also edit your post to link forward to new post.

Welcome aboard.

-Bob in North Hollywood, CA