Western Railroad Discussion > High winds stall train on Shasta Division

Amidst very high winds (predicted gusts well over 50mph) early this evening a northbound UP stack train rolled into Black Butte, CA and went into the hole. It was more or less on the schedule of the ZLCBR (which doesn't often run on Mondays) but was a different train--lots of international cans (Evergreen, K-Line, etc.) and no pigs. Not sure what the symbol is. It was soon passed by the MRVPW. At almost 10pm it is still sitting. I'm assuming it is being held up due to the extremely high winds. The areas just north of here, along the north flank of Mt. Shasta, are well known for wind events and have knocked pigs off the tracks in the past... I'm guessing this is a LA to Seattle train, probably mainly empty cans being repositioned?

Anyone know the symbol? Is there a policy on when trains get held for wind? I'd also be interested to know any updates on when it is likely to proceed.

D. Gamble

my guess, an iditax? dallas to tacoma extra.
if it turns out that i'm right i will answer your next question before you ask it, no...i have no idea why it runs that route.

Train Events
IDITAX 15 I-stndrd Intermodal

Event City/State Date/Time
Departed Dit, TX 11/15/12 19:05
Departed Ftworth, TX 11/15/12 22:05
Departed Sweetwate, TX 11/16/12 04:30
Departed Desert, NM 11/16/12 21:28
Departed Elpasdals, TX 11/16/12 22:45
Departed Lordsburg, NM 11/17/12 03:20
Departed Toltec, AZ 11/17/12 10:31
Departed Yuma, AZ 11/17/12 15:38
Departed Wcolton, CA 11/18/12 03:25
Departed Bakersfie, CA 11/18/12 12:09
Departed Stockton, CA 11/18/12 17:10
Departed Roseville, CA 11/19/12 01:13
Departed Redding, CA 11/19/12 06:33
Departed Dunsmuir, CA 11/19/12 16:07
Passing Azalea, CA 11/19/12 17:28
Arrived Blabutte, CA 11/19/12 18:03

Scheduled Events
Scheduled Departure Blabutte, CA 11/20/12 13:00
Scheduled Departure Texum, OR 11/20/12 20:26
Scheduled Departure Klafalls, OR 11/20/12 21:37
Scheduled Departure Abehbd, OR 11/21/12 01:54
Scheduled Departure Eugene, OR 11/21/12 07:19
Scheduled Departure Millersbu, OR 11/21/12 10:09
Scheduled Departure Salem, OR 11/21/12 11:40
Scheduled Departure Albina, OR 11/21/12 15:59
Scheduled Arrival Tacoma, WA 11/22/12 01:59

Car Totals Loads: 109 Empties: 0 Gross Tons: 3068 Length: 6121 ft. Net Tons: 939

RailNet802, out

The tall bridge referred to as Dry Creek or Dry Canyon has quite a legend for wind events. It has a remote weather station, I've always been curious what it had to say.

If you look on the local NWS 'Observations' page they do have a location and minimal data from a couple of sites labeled 'UPR'. The Dunsmuir Cam was getting rain directly into the front of the camera, the local CalTrans reporting station, also on the NWS Obs page, reported 26mph gusts. Doesn't sound like much but a relatively high number for the area.

The NWS forecasts usually site ridge conditions, the river valleys, canyons or funnel situations like Dry Canyon have to be derived from that.

Gusts around Black Butte have definitely been much stronger than 26mph. I would guess in excess of 50mph. I can imagine there are some pretty strong winds coming off of Shasta north of there...

The high wind policy varies by railroad. Some start slowing trains as low at 40 mph gusts with most 50-55 mph. There are some types of trains (loaded coal) where they do not slow the train until higher speeds.

For tornadoes, the rains are usually stopped in place (if they are well within the storm warning) or allowed to exit is near the edge.

Flash flood warnings, depending on the RR, bring a stop or a 10 mph restricted speed in most cases.

That area where the scanner is, Bolum ?, is where it blew a train on its side in the 80s. I was called to pick up the mess. As we went over dry creek that old SD9 was swaying in the wind.
After that you used to have to call the dispatcher if you had pigs and he would let you know what the wind was and a ya or ney on going.


Nudge

dshgamble Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gusts around Black Butte have definitely been much
> stronger than 26mph. I would guess in excess of
> 50mph. I can imagine there are some pretty strong
> winds coming off of Shasta north of there...

I would think so as well. Here's the test of the Bolam location from the NWS, excuse the word wrap. The Gust is the number after the letter 'G':

Weather Conditions for:
BOLAM, CA (BOLC1)
Elev: 4489 ft; Latitude: 41.5342; Longitude: -122.2097

Current time: Tue, 20 Nov 12:17 pm (PST)
Most Recent Observation: Tue, 20 Nov 12:03 pm PST (PST)
Time Temp. Dew Relative Wind Wind Wind Fuel Fuel Solar Solar Precip Precip Precip Precip Quality
Point Humidity Chill Direction Speed Temp Moisture Radiation Pct Accumulated 1 hour 6 hour 24 hour Control
(PST) (f) (f) (%) (f) (mph) (f) (%) (W/m*m) of psbl (inches) (inches) (inches) (inches)
20 Nov 12:03 pm PST 53 37 55 SSW 28G49 53 22 235 31% 1.02 0.03 0.07 0.07 OK
20 Nov 11:03 am PST 44 39 81 S 26G43 42 21 61 9% 0.99 0.04 0.04 0.04 OK
20 Nov 10:03 am PST 52 34 51 SW 20G47 52 10 203 40% 0.95 OK
20 Nov 9:03 am PST 56 33 41 SSW 25G62 57 11 122 42% 0.95 OK
20 Nov 8:03 am PST 56 29 36 S 26G60 55 10 18 58% 0.95 OK
20 Nov 7:03 am PST 54 28 36 S 34G58 53 11 1 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 6:03 am PST 56 29 36 SSW 28G68 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 5:03 am PST 55 28 35 SSW 30G57 54 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 4:03 am PST 57 27 32 SSW 33G56 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 3:03 am PST 57 27 31 SSW 27G51 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 2:03 am PST 55 32 41 SSW 34G65 54 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 1:03 am PST 56 31 39 SSW 30G57 54 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
20 Nov 12:03 am PST 57 31 37 SSW 28G59 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 11:03 pm PST 57 31 37 SSW 36G60 56 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 10:03 pm PST 57 31 37 S 31G53 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 9:03 pm PST 55 31 40 S 32G60 54 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 8:03 pm PST 56 30 37 SSW 34G60 55 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 7:03 pm PST 59 28 31 S 36G65 57 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 6:03 pm PST 58 30 34 SSW 34G61 56 11 0 -- 0.95 OK
19 Nov 5:03 pm PST 57 30 35 SSW 32G53 56 11 15 17% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 4:03 pm PST 56 33 41 WSW 21G47 55 11 213 62% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 3:03 pm PST 57 32 39 WSW 15G65 60 10 433 79% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 2:03 pm PST 61 30 31 SSW 34G58 66 10 504 73% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 1:03 pm PST 57 30 35 SSE 20G56 64 10 465 61% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 12:03 pm PST 57 32 38 SE 11G38 61 11 535 71% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 11:03 am PST 57 31 37 S 10G26 63 12 246 37% 0.95 OK
19 Nov 10:03 am PST 49 33 53 ENE 12G23 50 14 107 21% 0.95 0.02 OK
19 Nov 9:03 am PST 48 32 53 NE 8G16 48 15 73 25% 0.95 0.11 OK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/12 12:20 by TCnR.

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That area where the scanner is, Bolum ?, is where
> it blew a train on its side in the 80s. I was
> called to pick up the mess. As we went over dry
> creek that old SD9 was swaying in the wind.
> After that you used to have to call the dispatcher
> if you had pigs and he would let you know what the
> wind was and a ya or ney on going.
>
>
> Nudge


Yep, the scanner and the road crossing is Bolam. there was a siding and a TO office there until maybe the late 60's or whenever they had the reduction in sidings and TO offices.

Didn't know about the derailment there. I did notice that big cedar tree that broke in half at about 25 ft off the ground, that must have made a noise.

The coil steel car covers at the bottom of Dry Creek were pretty famous. There are stories of cars being blown off but I think we've talked about that the past.

The I-DITAX has now been at Black Butte for 24 hours. And it blocking the siding needed by the MRVPW, now on its way from Dunsmuir, to make its scheduled pick-up of 3 cars set out by CORP a couple days ago. We'll see...the departure time for the stack train has been pushed back several times today but is now supposed to be just after 7pm. Maybe that will happen, or maybe the the pick-up will have to wait on tomorrow's PW....meanwhile, a relative calm has settled over Black Butte, the gusts down to maybe 20mph....