Western Railroad Discussion > Penalties for trespassing on a railroad?

fbe made an important post on another thread about trespassing on railroads. many courts don't take these actions seriously, so there's been an effort to increase penalties. Virginia has felony trespass laws which may be used for trespass on railroad property. Florida has a statute that includes port districts, airports, refinery areas, and related railroad property

I was surprised to see that several states specifically exempt hunters and fisher people from the trespass laws unless there's specific posting. That's been an issue in a number of previous incidents, notably in Pennsylvania.

Ann Arbor, Michigan

>>Federal Railroad Administration data shows Washtenaw County had five railroad casualties between 2007 and 2009, the second highest number among counties in the state. Only Wayne County had more with seven during that timeframe.

Officials with Ann Arbor police and U-M police said Norfolk Southern police are leading the effort and declined to comment.

------------------------

Livermore, California:

>>I have a story that needs printing. I was walking across the railroad tracks (on June 7) and was cited by a Union Pacific Police Officer as trespassing, even though I took less than 2 seconds to cross the tracks. I watched in disbelief when he wrote me a ticket and then told me I had a mandatory court date.

Today I went to court and sat through running red lights and speeding citations. Most fines were in the $150 to $600 range. I was near the end since it was alphabetical, and imagine my utmost surprise at being told the fine was over $6,000!!!! The judge would not dismiss the case or reduce the fine. She said I either had to pay it or plead "not guilty" and come back for a trial.<<


Summary of laws:

http://www.atdlines.com/pdf/cross-ch9.pdf

Wow!! $6,000 for walking across Union Pacific's railroad tracks in Livermore??? Something is not quite right here. Especially when one reads California's definition of the Trespassing Law, thanks to the link that was provided in the post. I have very limited legal knowledge, but I hope that this individual is able to get the fine reduced and/or the case dismissed.

"imagine my utmost surprise at being told the fine was over $6,000!!!! "

My BS detector went off on this. Either it didnt happen or she was being charged with more than a misdeamenor, in which case she wasnt in traffic court.

syscom3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "imagine my utmost surprise at being told the fine
> was over $6,000!!!! "
>
> My BS detector went off on this. Either it didnt
> happen or she was being charged with more than a
> misdeamenor, in which case she wasnt in traffic
> court.


I thought so, as well.

Although there was a flurry of news at the time, I haven't been able to find a disposition. I have no idea if she paid

"fisher people"?



Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fbe made an important post on another thread about
> trespassing on railroads. many courts don't take
> these actions seriously, so there's been an effort
> to increase penalties. Virginia has felony
> trespass laws which may be used for trespass on
> railroad property. Florida has a statute that
> includes port districts, airports, refinery areas,
> and related railroad property
>
> I was surprised to see that several states
> specifically exempt hunters and fisher people from
> the trespass laws unless there's specific posting.
> That's been an issue in a number of previous
> incidents, notably in Pennsylvania.
>
> Ann Arbor, Michigan
>
> >>Federal Railroad Administration data shows
> Washtenaw County had five railroad casualties
> between 2007 and 2009, the second highest number
> among counties in the state. Only Wayne County had
> more with seven during that timeframe.
>
> Officials with Ann Arbor police and U-M police
> said Norfolk Southern police are leading the
> effort and declined to comment.
>
> ------------------------
>
> Livermore, California:
>
> >>I have a story that needs printing. I was
> walking across the railroad tracks (on June 7) and
> was cited by a Union Pacific Police Officer as
> trespassing, even though I took less than 2
> seconds to cross the tracks. I watched in
> disbelief when he wrote me a ticket and then told
> me I had a mandatory court date.
>
> Today I went to court and sat through running red
> lights and speeding citations. Most fines were in
> the $150 to $600 range. I was near the end since
> it was alphabetical, and imagine my utmost
> surprise at being told the fine was over
> $6,000!!!! The judge would not dismiss the case or
> reduce the fine. She said I either had to pay it
> or plead "not guilty" and come back for a
> trial.<<
>
>
> Summary of laws:
>
>

There's a story about a river canyon in Wyoming where the only place to walk is the RR property. the opposite shore being mostly cliffs. The fisher-people can access the waterway through older laws about access to fish, etc. Anyone else is simply not allowed.

If someone is found along the river they have to be equipped with a fishing pole and a current State Fishing license. One result is there are very few photos of trains in that Canyon.

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "fisher people"?
>
>
>
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fbe made an important post on another thread
> about

I have heard the fools bungee jumping of MRL's Fish Ck bridge with their cords tied across the live rails paid about $350 in fines.

It seems BNSF has been harsh to fisherpersons in the Yakima River canyon but I have not heard of any specific fines. A friend from Spokane ended up doing community service with the local police department filing papers.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

I looked the $6000 story up and this is the disposition:

" Laura August 30, 2012 at 12:26 AM
Just wanted to update...I went to trial court today and the Union Pacific police officer did not show up, so the judge dropped the charges. So I did not have to pay the $6000 fine, but I did pay $1500 for an attorney, since I felt I needed counsel on this whole thing. "

The fines all depend on the violation. Obviously the worse the violation, the heavier the fine.

Here in California, 369(i) of the Penal Code pretty much covers any kinda of trespassing or interfering with RxR property (misdemeanor). 555 of the Penal Code is an infraction, but has to have signs posted every 100 feet (I think??) before it can be enforced. There are some felonies for derailing a train, placing items on the tracks etc.

I've seen fines into the hundreds of dollars for going around crossing gates, around trains etc, but $6000 sounds like a lot of money for a fine, even for California!

Jeff

California 369i:
" ...
As used in this subdivision, "property of any railroad" means any
land owned, leased, or possessed by a railroad upon which is placed a
railroad track and the land immediately adjacent thereto, to the
distance of 20 feet on either side of the track, which is owned,
leased, or possessed by a railroad.
(b) Any person who enters or remains upon any transit-related
property without permission or whose entry, presence, or conduct upon
the property interferes with, interrupts, or hinders the safe and
efficient operation of the transit-related facility is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
As used in this subdivision, "transit-related property" means any
land, facilities, or vehicles owned, leased, or possessed by a county
transportation commission, transportation authority, or transit
district, as defined in Section 99170 of the Public Utilities Code,
that are used to provide public transportation by rail or passenger
bus or are directly related to that use."

Since that Livermore story appeared, I've looked up the bail amount for 369i in Alameda County. It is $1500, which appears to be typical for a misdemeanor violation.
You can't get to $6000 from there unless you work really hard. I will speculate that she failed to appear for her court dates a couple of times (or failed to respond to the instructions on the citation in a timely manner). Each time you fail to appear the judge can raise the bail amount. One would have to see the court record to know for sure, but I guarantee that it did not start out as $6000.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

There was also a recent post asking about the width of railroad right of ways. Originally, there may have been a standard of 50 feet on each side (or something similar), but I have had access to a GIS database that shows the property / parcel lines for a couple counties in the SF Bay Area. I've looked specifically at certain areas where I have been and can tell you that the actual property lines vary greatly. Some places very narrow and other places very wide ( don't know the actual footage, you would need a surveyor). Probably depends upon how property was later sold as well as the physical geography. Actual property lines may extend beyond fences and in areas where there is a road along the tracks, the RR property might extend beyond both sides of the road.

Fortunately, the railroads tend to only be concerned with the area immediately around the tracks and that is where they typically post the trespassing signs.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

I believe that Oregon does not require posting!

Mike Root
Madras, OR

The largest penalty for trespassing on railroad property...possible death.

As much as I hated my metrolink ticket I guess it is better than 6000.00 mine started life as a 50 dollar fine and then add all the extras it turned out to be 150.00 and a misdameanor on the old record I wish I would of known about the signs being posted that really would of helped me fight it, I did the same thing , was going to work less then 1 minut to cross and there was the sheriff he even gave me a ride to work parked right in front of work and in front of everybody wrote me the ticket. Had many others walking the same path ,Homeless, at the time but he stated that wasn't his concern

Welcome to the world of "substantiating my job" and ticket quotas. Just too many trespassers getting killed by trains these days, so the cops have to be able to show the UP brass that they are doing something. Not doing the right thing, like looking for real problem people.....just using line of sight, IMHO, or the usual pacing of any trains with the Brass riding on board.

My experience...The older, seasoned cops know what they are doing. They young guys...some still have fantasies of single handedly thwarting the next terrorist plot, and get carried away. Some were MP's from the middle east wars, and IMHO, haven't completely adjusted to civilian life.

Just my opinion. I'm sure there are some law enforcement folks on this site who will berate me here. Just so you know, I've had some of the seasoned guys actually apologize to me for the overly aggressive behavior of the "kids"

syscom3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "imagine my utmost surprise at being told the fine
> was over $6,000!!!! "
>
> My BS detector went off on this. Either it didnt
> happen or she was being charged with more than a
> misdeamenor, in which case she wasnt in traffic
> court.


Typical court/judge action.

Given a case that they know they will loose at trail (or get a "time served"), they throw a plea deal, hoping that the good, honest citizen will plea it out.

syscom3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I looked the $6000 story up and this is the
> disposition:
>
> " Laura August 30, 2012 at 12:26 AM
> Just wanted to update...I went to trial court
> today and the Union Pacific police officer did not
> show up, so the judge dropped the charges. So I
> did not have to pay the $6000 fine, but I did pay
> $1500 for an attorney, since I felt I needed
> counsel on this whole thing. "

Thanks for the follow up. Many cases are resolved that way. It's a shame she had to pay $1500 (that seems a lot for a traffic court attorney, even with some background research). But she's alive, and has all her limbs, so that's a good thing.

She should of just ran!

Posted from Android

$6,000 fine for walking perpendicular to the train tracks it not just obscured, but unjust, almost not possible. Regardless, i'm glad the charges were dropped.

Speaking of penalties, the UK's policy for trespassing is an automatic 1000 pound fine (no warning), and it can be proven with CCTV, pretty much everywhere. Most railroads i encountered back in the states (unless you're near a port or yard) would tell you to get out of there. Progress is amazing isn't it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/14 13:47 by wheelnrail.