Western Railroad Discussion > UP Coast Questions

Hey all,

I just had a few questions that have been bugging me for a while and maybe some of you on here could answer them!

1st, why don't the Oil Cans that they run between Wunpost and Dolores have DPU's rather than relying on Helpers? If the line isn't DPU capable, wouldn't it make sense to set that up in the long run, not just for the sake of the cans but anything else that they want to run that way?

2nd, they have been running near daily Southbound baretables down the coast and once or twice a week they run empty auto repos down the coast. How exactly are these trains crewed, wouldn't they be burning through SLO's extra list, or are they being vanned from elsewhere?

3rd, why not run one low priority train northbound per day? Maybe one of the MWCRV sections? If they set up a pools Oakland-SLO and SLO-LA they could easily crew the daily repos and have a way for those crews to get back North every day on a revenue train. I am assuming they are running the repo's down the coast to get them off Tehachapi, are there any northbounds that traverse Tehachapi that could be pulled off there and put on the coast? Maybe that will come with much more congestion in the valley.



Love to hear what some of you have to say. The Coast had a good run for a while, I wonder why when the NUMMI traffic died that they just decided to pull the plug on everything...


Thanks,

Davis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/14 11:59 by strench707.

1st Rule: Don't try and out think the Union Pacific
2nd Rule: Union Pacific is always right

That's all that needs to be said

uprrman156 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st Rule: Don't try and out think the Union
> Pacific
> 2nd Rule: Union Pacific is always right
>
> That's all that needs to be said

man156,

You have in the wrong order.

Rule 1, The UP is always right.
Rule 2, Don't try to out think the UP.
Rule 3, See Rule 1.

J.

I'm curious about the crew situation as well. I asked elsewhere several months ago about the SLO-CP Main St (LA) segment, and was told they can either lay over and taxi back or go straight back to SLO based on the discretion on the Corridor Manager on a case-by-case basis. Given that these guys usually take at least 8-10 hours to make the trip (especially since they typically end up getting down to SBA/Oxnard right when the PM commuter rush starts), I would think that ends up giving crews incredibly long trips when they taxi back immediately.

The other thing I'm curious about is why the Repos are often timed when they are. Seems like more often than not, they hit San Jose in AM rush hour, have to dance around AMT11/14 &/or 761/790 at SLO, then hit Metrolink at PM rush hour. Running in the late PM/evening out of the Bay Area would give them a much clearer trip I'd think. I don't like "armchair railroading" as someone on the outside, but little of this makes sense to me. I'm thinking the words of wisdom of the prior posters applies.

Posted from iPhone

If UP keeps freight traffic to a minimum they don't have to put more into maintenance than they have to. Then if Amtrak wants to add an SF-LA train or other additional service UP can demand that Amtrak pay for the track upgrades. Am I being facetious or closer to the truth than I know?

Then again, isn't UP just one good earthquake or tunnel fire or Caliente Creek flood away from having to shove all the Tehachapi traffic up the Coast?

Stephanie Ann

I'm under the impression that the track isn't that bad. When I chased an autorack repo, they were pulling a consistent 60mph on the straightaway south of Salinas.

That's pretty damn good as far as I'm concerned.


Davis

strench707 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey all,
>
> I just had a few questions that have been bugging
> me for a while and maybe some of you on here could
> answer them!
>
> 1st, why don't the Oil Cans that they run between
> Wunpost and Dolores have DPU's rather than relying
> on Helpers? If the line isn't DPU capable,
> wouldn't it make sense to set that up in the long
> run, not just for the sake of the cans but
> anything else that they want to run that way?


It is actually less expensive, UP found, to run a manned helper versus a DPU. The helper is only needed for the 17 mile run over Questa grade



> 2nd, they have been running near daily Southbound
> baretables down the coast and once or twice a week
> they run empty auto repos down the coast. How
> exactly are these trains crewed, wouldn't they be
> burning through SLO's extra list, or are they
> being vanned from elsewhere?


San Luis Obispo is the home terminal for two pools, SLO-LA, and SLO-Oak. There should be enough pool crews to cover the traffic but as happens everywhere on RR's there isn't sometimes. So, after exhausting the pool crews you use the extra board folks.




> 3rd, why not run one low priority train northbound
> per day? Maybe one of the MWCRV sections? If
> they set up a pools Oakland-SLO and SLO-LA they
> could easily crew the daily repos and have a way
> for those crews to get back North every day on a
> revenue train. I am assuming they are running the
> repo's down the coast to get them off Tehachapi,
> are there any northbounds that traverse Tehachapi
> that could be pulled off there and put on the
> coast? Maybe that will come with much more
> congestion in the valley.


This next answer is only my opinion. I believe that once Positive Train Control has been installed on the coast, you will see more traffic. Again, that is only my opinion.




> Love to hear what some of you have to say. The
> Coast had a good run for a while, I wonder why
> when the NUMMI traffic died that they just decided
> to pull the plug on everything...
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Davis


V

SLOCONDR

strench707 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm under the impression that the track isn't that
> bad. When I chased an autorack repo, they were
> pulling a consistent 60mph on the straightaway
> south of Salinas.
>
> That's pretty damn good as far as I'm concerned.
>
>
> Davis


The track is maintained by one of UP's finest "Road Masters", actually on the UP they are "MTM's", or Manager, Track Maintenance". Javier Sanchez is the MTM, an old school SP man out of Tehachapi, and his RR from SLO to Moorpark is almost top notch. If a problem is found he has his force on it almost immediately.




V

SLOCONDR

From the perspective of a semi-frequent Starlight passenger over the Coast Line, I've noticed a big improvement in the ride quality over the last ten years. Even so, I still miss the Espee and those wonderful H2 searchlight signals!

Posted from iPhone

Thanks for the info SLOCONDR, answers a lot!

Was the pool expanded when they started running these repo's consistently? Also must be wasteful having to taxi everyone back since southbound traffic far outweighs the northbound traffic (empty cans).

Davis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/14 13:48 by strench707.

Helper engines are there anyway. Extra list crew is there anyway. Why be running DPU's when u only need them for 17 miles of a 300 mile trip. Need to have helpers available at SLO due to failures on the hill, or they will run to wunpost to help with assembling the train and run south from there, and they are used for M/W moves and other assorted moves. Also rescuing Amtk on the road is very popular.

As for crews on the repos...I dunno what UP pays for deadheading time. Doesn't see like its straight time. I think 1 for 2 is typical, but who knows. Or they could have a crazy formula where its the min or average of 5 different things.

At "the airline" we had
hard time
Deadhead time
standby time
duty time
trip time

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Helper engines are there anyway. Extra list crew
> is there anyway. Why be running DPU's when u only
> need them for 17 miles of a 300 mile trip. Need
> to have helpers available at SLO due to failures
> on the hill, or they will run to wunpost to help
> with assembling the train and run south from
> there, and they are used for M/W moves and other
> assorted moves. Also rescuing Amtk on the road is
> very popular.
>
> As for crews on the repos...I dunno what UP pays
> for deadheading time. Doesn't see like its
> straight time. I think 1 for 2 is typical, but
> who knows. Or they could have a crazy formula
> where its the min or average of 5 different
> things.
>
> At "the airline" we had
> hard time
> Deadhead time
> standby time
> duty time
> trip time



The deadhead time is the same as working (at least for the prior right employees) which is a flat rate for mileage, overtime after 10' and tow in after 12', which is the same as OT but cannot be called OT. As far as being used in MoW service, that was a no-no when I was working and I would imagine it still is.


V

SLOCONDR

strench707 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info SLOCONDR, answers a lot!
>
> Was the pool expanded when they started running
> these repo's consistently? Also must be wasteful
> having to taxi everyone back since southbound
> traffic far outweighs the northbound traffic
> (empty cans).
>
> Davis


A pool is in fact "expanded", or increased as we call it, to cover the amount of traffic through the terminal. There is a formula that the union and the company use to adjust the pool. If you run out of pool crews, you go to the extra board for a conductor to cover the pool job. Pool jobs are regular jobs bid in by employees, based on their seniority. As far as your comment about it being a waste to deadhead a crew right back to SLO from LA or Oak, no, it isn't because after 16' a crew goes on HAHT (Held Away From Home terminal) and can be much more costly than deadheading them home.
Hope this helps you.


V

SLOCONDR

Yup, crews close to collecting alimony pay at away terminals are sent home ASAP, working or deadhead

This thread is an example of the good side of Trainorders. No politics, no character assassination, just some good questions and a straightforward discussion of the facts (with a little humor thrown in). Thanks strench707, SLOCONDR and others participating!

Regards,
Rich Tower



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/14 16:02 by RLcabin.

Usually no later than 15'45" just missing "heldaway".

Out

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Usually no later than 15'45" just missing
> "heldaway".
>
> Out


How about 15'59". That would be the UP way.

V

SLOCONDR

RLcabin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is an example of the good side of
> Trainorders. No politics, no character
> assassination, just some good questions and a
> straightforward discussion of the facts (with a
> little humor thrown in). Thanks strench707,
> SLOCONDR and others participating!
>
> Regards,
> Rich Tower


Thank you, Rich. I appreciate that.

V

SLOCONDR

SLOCONDR Wrote:

> The track is maintained by one of UP's finest
> "Road Masters", actually on the UP they are
> "MTM's", or Manager, Track Maintenance". Javier
> Sanchez is the MTM, an old school SP man out of
> Tehachapi, and his RR from SLO to Moorpark is
> almost top notch. If a problem is found he has his
> force on it almost immediately.
>
> V
>
> SLOCONDR

I second Virlon's comments about MTM. Javier Sanchez and his MOW gang are great! Coupled that with UP providing them with the resources and materials, they keep our section of the Coast Line in great shape.

I do not know Mr. Sanchez, but in my experience an outstanding MTM who knows his business and makes sure all the people working for him know theirs, is just about the most important positive you can have on the railroad. It really makes all the difference. Congratulations to him and the rest of the UP folks who make this work.