Western Railroad Discussion > Hauser, WA fuel problems moved eastward

BNSF has directed MRL to move fueling of head end and DPU units to Missoula, MT. This will require cutting two road crossings and tying down each train in two places. The fueling delay will be about two hours. Then the heavy (coal, grain, oil, bentonite, etc) trains will be put back together and pulled down the main line and tied down for a car man's inspection.

Fewer crews will be able to turn back out of Helena since they will need two hours or more time left on duty to stay with the train in Missoula to fuel.

This sounds like a "just do something, anythiing" directive from high above.

Any idea if there are plans for a real solution, like a new facility, or an overpass in one of the problem areas?

I was out on Monday, and noticed that the Z and Q trains were bypassing the fuel tracks now. There is still a backlog of trains on either side of Hauser, but not as bad as it has been. On the other hand the Lind Turn tied down in Cheney because there wasn't anyone available to dogcatch it. The conductor said "there will be a shortage of bread in Seattle in a couple days" aluding to the fact that the Lind Turn takes the flour cars from the ADM flour mill in Cheney to Spokane.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

MRL called a crew this morning to dogcatch a grain mty which went on duty at Hauser last night at 1945. The train had not left Hauser by o7oo.

Ft Worth has been involved in the Hauser operations for a week or two now. Still no relief in sight. In fact the problems seem to be getting worse. Between crew shortages and van shortages I am suprised we are moving anything at all besides the Z's and Amtrak. 12+ days are the norm now. Several crews last week were 20+ on duty because they died and had to ride in with relief crews or they were forgotten about.

I will admit I am not famillar with the problem, but would it help to fuel DPUs from a truck while the head end is at the fuel pad?

Excatly what is the problem? Too many trains? Not enough concurrent fueling tracks?

Pacific5th Wrote:
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> Ft Worth has been involved in the Hauser
> operations for a week or two now. Still no relief
> in sight. In fact the problems seem to be getting
> worse. Between crew shortages and van shortages I
> am suprised we are moving anything at all besides
> the Z's and Amtrak. 12+ days are the norm now.
> Several crews last week were 20+ on duty because
> they died and had to ride in with relief crews or
> they were forgotten about.

Could you explain what you mean by "Fort Worth has been involved........"?  Thanks!

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ft Worth has been involved in the Hauser
> operations for a week or two now. Still no relief
> in sight. In fact the problems seem to be getting
> worse. Between crew shortages and van shortages I
> am suprised we are moving anything at all besides
> the Z's and Amtrak. 12+ days are the norm now.
> Several crews last week were 20+ on duty because
> they died and had to ride in with relief crews or
> they were forgotten about.

Ive always been impressed with how often crews will sit waiting for a shuttle van because nobody has bothered to arrange a ride. Youd think in such a large company, that has been around for so long doing the same thing, they would be organized enough to be able to plan rides home for their employees. I am in seattle and it seems an every day occurrence that a pool crew will arrive and tie train down but then yardmaster tells them "just ordered a ride for you since no one thought ahead to do it." Shocking.

Posted from iPhone

bbcc Wrote:
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> Ive always been impressed with how often crews
> will sit waiting for a shuttle van because nobody
> has bothered to arrange a ride. Youd think in such
> a large company, that has been around for so long
> doing the same thing, they would be organized
> enough to be able to plan rides home for their
> employees. I am in seattle and it seems an every
> day occurrence that a pool crew will arrive and
> tie train down but then yardmaster tells them
> "just ordered a ride for you since no one thought
> ahead to do it." Shocking.

Impressed isn't a good word for it, at least on my part.

Crews, power, and track are relatively scarce resources that railroads squander as if the supply was endless. They contract with van companies to drive crews all around the country at a moment's notice, then mismanage that resource as well as the crew resource mismanagement that the van service is supposed to mitigate, then readily proclaim that they are screwed up because of lack of power and crews.

(...but in the mind of some, the once a day Amtrak is the root of all evil.)

TAW

Amtrak apparently fell victim today.

It was reported elsewhere that number 7 was bustituted west of Spokane today due to track capacity issues.

I'm not sure what became of number 27.

Posted from iPhone

As long as crews are viewed as expendable resources, they will sit on trains until a $7.25 an hour (insert appropriate local rate) van driver can find them. 

It makes no sense, but that's how it is. Putting two valuable (figure two guys totalling $70 bucks an hour plus benefits) guys off the clock to save the time of a $7.25 driver makes no sense when the two guys could be fetched, fed, rested, and put back to work fast.  Lose two guys for an hour here, two more over there, and you have dozens of crews vanishing into thin air.

Purely mercenary thought, but that's how the companies seem to view the problem.  Saving $7.25 and losing $70...

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sounds like a "just do something, anythiing"
> directive from high above.
>
> Any idea if there are plans for a real solution,
> like a new facility, or an overpass in one of the
> problem areas?

To answer in order:  Yes, and NO.
 

sums007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ft Worth has been involved in the Hauser
> > operations for a week or two now. Still no
> relief
> > in sight. In fact the problems seem to be
> getting
> > worse. Between crew shortages and van shortages
> I
> > am suprised we are moving anything at all
> besides
> > the Z's and Amtrak. 12+ days are the norm now.
> > Several crews last week were 20+ on duty
> because
> > they died and had to ride in with relief crews
> or
> > they were forgotten about.
>
> Could you explain what you mean by "Fort Worth has
> been involved........"?  Thanks!

He means that the problem is so bad that local management has been bypassed and bigwigs from Corporate HQ are now directly involved.
 

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will admit I am not famillar with the problem,
> but would it help to fuel DPUs from a truck while
> the head end is at the fuel pad?
>
> Excatly what is the problem? Too many trains? Not
> enough concurrent fueling tracks?

Too many trains for the fueling facility to handle, poor train management, poor crew management, not enough crew shuttles for transporting crews to dogcatch other trains.  Also, to have a fueling truck attemptting to fuel DP out on the mainlines is not a good answer. iT would just add more confusion to the situaion plus create unsafe work scenarios for non train personnel.

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MRL called a crew this morning to dogcatch a grain
> mty which went on duty at Hauser last night at
> 1945. The train had not left Hauser by o7oo.

It's usual for crews to sit and wait 4 or more hours before their train shows up. I recently heard that the FRA is fining BNSF for every crew member working over 12 hours. We're not talking chump change here either.  The zombie apocolypse has struck at Hauser the crews are so fatigued.
 

Please tell me that this, in at least some small part, has to do with the company's "brilliant" plan to consolidate crew districts and pools... I love when horrible plans create chaos!

Posted from Android

"Fort Worth has been involved" translates to take thing out of local management's hands. Will be just as successful
as most remote management things usually are.

Out

The last FRA "rest rule" tried to eliminate "limbo" time where crews were sitting on trains after their 12 hr duty time had been reached. This includes time in a van trying to reach the final terminal. The FRA wants the crews to be at their tie up point 12 hours after going on duty. They can impose fines when that limit has been exceeded.

While that seems a solution you can find the railroads have a history of protesting FRA fines, appealing all fines and withholding fines until they are millions of dollars in arrears. Then they will go to the FRA when they have a bad quarter financially, plead poverty and settle for pennies on the dollar. One GAO study found the railroads commonly paid their fines for 10¢ on the dollar.

I was told BnSF can not fuel the DP power at Hauser off the pad. Some kind of agreement with Idaho/Rathdrum from when they built the place. It does not matter much anyways. Hauser does more then fuel, they sand, check fluids, clean the cabs and so on. 

As for vans vans the real problem is to much demand. BNSF is using ever single PTI van available every day. We now have a 2nd company (Cole Transport) and trainmasters driving crews as far as Pasco on some days. 

Doing a bit of googling and found that for a while in the 80's BN had a
fleet of 78 fuel tenders that were used between Seattle and Chicago...

It sounds like the tenders, repurposed tank cars, were not up to the long term stresses
of being between a couple of locomotives. 

But then it doesn't look like they experimented with a heavier duty frame.
Maybe they should have used old locomotives as the base for the tank....

Just think out loud for change.

Mike