Western Railroad Discussion > MILW Omaha Line

The Milwaukee Road rebuilt its main line from Chicago to Omaha and installed a CTC over the entire route (see link below).  This was completed to attract passenger and freight trains from the Union Pacific.  Following the line's closure, was the signal system moved to another line?  What happened to all of the rail?  It says the line had some 132 lb. rail on it, was that the typical size of all of track on the line?  Are any of those signals in service today on any parts of the Milwaukee Road?  

https://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/PostWar/Capacityfor15MoreTrainsFast,RailwayAge01131958.pdf
 

Isn't this the line thats still in place from CB to Bayard Ia. Now BNSF's Bayard sub.
Steve

That would be the line, CTC?

Out

Yes, this portion of the line is now the BNSF Bayard sub.  Not sure when signal system was removed, but it was long ago, now TWC (Track Warrant Control), max 30 mph.

Rail size between Chicago and Savanna was mostly 131/132# laid at dates varying from the 1940's, early 50's and into the 60's.  Between Council Bluffs and Bayard, most of the rail was 112# laid in the early 1940's, with some segments of 115# rail laid in 1955/56 (at the time the Milwaukee took over the passenger trains).  Between Bayard and Savanna, I don't know what rail size was typical.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/17 20:27 by czephyr17.

This story is what I remember of a conversation many years ago, so take it for what it's worth.      I was working on an RF codeline project with the lead signal manager for the ICE on their line to Kansas City.    I don't recall the gentleman's name, but he was a former Milwaukee signal manager.     A great guy to work and talk with.   We were talking about the closing of the former Omaha main and he was telling me that they had gone in and stripped out quite a bit of the CTC equipment with the intention of filling in some of the CTC gaps on the Kansas City line.     After he had put in a couple of new control points someone at headquarters in Milwaukee figured out what he was doing and slapped his hands.    They said they were trying to sell the property and adding CTC would just up the value and make harder to sell.     Neither one of us could make sense of that, but that was the end of using the salvaged equipment for CTC upgrades on the KC line.
Keep in mind that the equipment cost for CTC is probably less than half the total cost.    There are a lot of man hours involved in engineering, installation, and testing.    As well as additional costs in maintenance.     Just because you you have a bunch of CTC equipment sitting around does not make it inexpensive to install.

Stephen

Stephen, I'm just a bit puzzled because there are no, controlled (or appear to ever have been) sidings
on the line, "heritage" signal boxes, or the like.

Out

Accroding to my 1975 vintage condensed profile of the Iowa Division:

Savanna (MP 140, end of double track) to Marion (MP 228) was mostly 115# from 1951 with spots of 112#
Marion (MP 228) to MP 235 was 132# from 1961
MP 235 to Newhall (MP 247.5) was 112# from 1940
Newhall to Midway (MP 271.5) was 132# from 1960/61
Midway to just west of Tama (MP 283.4) was 112# from 1940
MP 283.4 to Melbourne (MP 307) was 115# from 1953
Melbourne to Collins (MP 317.8) was 112# from 1937
Collins to E. Madrid (MP 343) was 115# from 1963/4/5
E. MAdrid to Madrid (MP 347.4) was 112# from 1940
Madrid to Perry (MP 359.7) was 115# from 1965
Perry to west end of Neola (MP 465.8) was 112# from the 1930's and 40's (Bayard is MP 385)
Neola to Council Bluffs (MP 483.3) was 115# from 1955

Much of the line where it was not abandoned, Green Island to Dove, and Louisa to Slater was ripped out 1981-82.  The rail went to other locations on the Milwaukee, Mason City being one example.

MILW86A

Callum,   I'm not which line you are refereing to.   The article linked in the first post give a fairly detailed description of the CTC installed on the Omaha main.      On the KC line we replaced poll line with RF codeline from Larado MO, south to KC.   It was contolled by the bridge operator in KC.    There was TWC from there north to Ottumwa.    Ottumwa to the Quad Cites was a mix of TWC and CTC on former Milw and RI trackage.

Stephen

Stephen, I was referring to the portion of the line presently in place to Bayard. I thought that
was the focus of the discussion.

Out

Yes, I was refering the line as whole.    Still if you read through that article carefully it sounds like on the Bayard line there were power sidings at Weston, Neola, Yorkshire, Portsmouth, Earling, as well as both ends of the double track from Manilla to Templeton.     I wouldn't be at all surprised that there is very little sign of any of this left now.

Stephen

You'd have trouble convincing someone that there was double track from Templeton to Manilla.

Out

Was the route made up of welded rail or jointed?  What was the condition of the Iowa portion when it was abandoned?

It was and still is jointed, at least on the Western end. BNSF has put some ties in but other than that
it looks pretty Milwaukee.

Out

How does Milwaukee's line compare with the Illinois Central and the Rock Island for online customers?  I have read that Milwaukee had a better profile in Iowa than some of the other Granger railroads, is that true?  Could the best of the IC, Rock Island and MILW Chicago to Omaha lines be consolidated in such a way to create a jointly owned main line that could have been owned by all three railroads to save maintenance and operational costs?  Would Union Pacific have found benefit in it if it were still around today?  When the Milwaukee entered bankruptcy, did the UP entertain the idea of purchasing this line for access to Chicago; they might have been able to purchase it for short money complete with the CTC signal system?  What were the main reasons Milwaukee decided to close up the route in the end?    

Bayard West has a sizeable freight volume from a couple ethanol plants all the way down to local
setouts in places like Coon Rapids.

Out

Remember that this is the line the Milwaukee foolishly spent a ton of money on in the 1950s to "wrestle" (actually the C&NW didn't want them) the UP "Cities" streamliners away from the C&NW.  The logic was (in the collective mind of the Milwaukee) if they ran the UP's passenger trains, the freight would follow.  That never happened, and UP continued to interchange the bulk of its traffic to the C&NW and even for awhile interchanged to Burlington Northern at Grand Island for Chicago traffic.  So, had the UP seen any value in keeping the MILW route, they had ample opportunity to obtain it.

In the end, all the money the Milwaukee spent on this route was mostly for trains that didn't make any money anyway (passenger trains), and could have easily been spent many other places (just about anywhere you'd care to name) on the Milwaukee Road system.  On the other hand, other than Chicago to the Twin Cities, the Milwaukee usually had the vastly inferior route, so that money probably wouldn't have done much good in the end, anyway.

--Mark Meyer

Vermontanan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember that this is the line the Milwaukee
> foolishly spent a ton of money on in the 1950s to
> "wrestle" (actually the C&NW didn't want them) the
> UP "Cities" streamliners away from the C&NW.  The
> logic was (in the collective mind of the
> Milwaukee) if they ran the UP's passenger trains,
> the freight would follow.  That never happened,
> and UP continued to interchange the bulk of its
> traffic to the C&NW and even for awhile
> interchanged to Burlington Northern at Grand
> Island for Chicago traffic.  So, had the UP seen
> any value in keeping the MILW route, they had
> ample opportunity to obtain it.
>
> In the end, all the money the Milwaukee spent on
> this route was mostly for trains that didn't make
> any money anyway (passenger trains), and could
> have easily been spent many other places (just
> about anywhere you'd care to name) on the
> Milwaukee Road system.  On the other hand, other
> than Chicago to the Twin Cities, the Milwaukee
> usually had the vastly inferior route, so that
> money probably wouldn't have done much good in the
> end, anyway.
>
> --Mark Meyer
Sounds like the Milwaukee Road was the least valuable of all of the lines between Chicago and Omaha.  Still find it hard to believe that the UP did not look to buy for short money either Milwaukee's line or the Rock Island when both were bankrupt unless they really believed that the C&NW was the best and only real option to extend their line to Chicago.  IAIS got most of the RI line for $35 Million or so.  UP management must have felt it was in their best interest to work to eventually merge with the C&NW, and wait 20 or so years to do it, verses going for either of the two bankrupt lines in the 1970s.

i think the icc blocked up from buying the ex rockisland.nee iowainterstaterr