Western Railroad Discussion > LA & LB Harbor police

Has anyone else besides me been told by the Long Beach Harbor police that it is against the law to take photographs from public property of any of the operations on going operations, including trains, in the Long Beach or for that matter the Los Angles harbor?

What is strange about this is that the Long Beach Harbor PR or whatever department is having contest for the best photos taken at Long Beach harbor.

Also about nine years ago or so I was photographing at Long Beach Harbor, a BNSF red and silver unit, and ran into shift sergeant of the Long Beach Harbor police and the first thing he said to me as got out of car is that "yes, you have the right to photograph trains in the LB Harbor from public property". He then asked where I was parked and I told him and he said that was fine and for the next fifteen minutes or so we had a very nice conversation and he told why he stopped and some very interesting stories about folks running around the harbor.

I once was given a Tour at night of Long Beach harbor by a Officer for the ports and found this industrial unit at Pacific Terminals Oct 1976

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I’m down there 2-3 times a month and have only been stopped a handful of times but never had any serious issues with law enforcement. At one point, I had several units from both Harbor PD departments show up and run my info but all officers involved were very professional. When I have been stopped, I always make it a point to verify with them that I’m on public property which has helped. I think part of the problem for most people in places like this is loitering in one place for an extended period. I always monitor ATCS & the radio channels there (and other similar locations) and try to time my arrival at any shots I get so that I’m standing around as little as possible. That’s a better strategy in an area like PHL anyway where you can’t see everything at one location.

Posted from iPhone

I had only been at the location for less than five minutes. I hope you know that it takes more that it some to take photos. The officer said that you could not take photos period not even from a moving car.

DWGOLDE Wrote:
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> I had only been at the location for less than five
> minutes. I hope you know that it takes more that
> it some to take photos. The officer said that you
> could not take photos period not even from a
> moving car.

I think the best procedure in this case is to move along as requested, but write down the officer's information and follow up with a superior from their department. This is how a lot of misinterpreted "you aren't allowed to photograph (whatever)" situations are resolved.

Where exactly was this? There’s certain places on the Long Beach side of the Port where standing in one place for even a couple minutes will probably get the attention of the Harbor Patrol (especially around Pier B).

Posted from iPhone

Its pretty sad when terrorists are looking for ways to kill us and cops think they're making things safer by trying to run harmless photographers out of town.

wigwag Wrote:
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> Its pretty sad when terrorists are looking for
> ways to kill us and cops think they're making
> things safer by trying to run harmless
> photographers out of town.

I dunno.

A few years ago, I ran over some garbage on the ramp from NJ Turnpike exit 13A to US 1-9 North, adjacent to Newark Airport. Pulled over to make sure nothing was caught.

Within 60 seconds, the first Port Authority police cruiser had pulled in behind me. Two man crew. Followed by another. I think they emerged from the bowels of the earth. They watched me check, then watched me leave. Sure they ran my plates, although they didn't ask for my ID. Harmless looking old guy driving a nondescript vehicle.

If I was scouting an attack on the Newark Airport jet fuel tanks just across the fence line, fifty yards away, I'd be sure to let my buddies in Kabul, Islamabad, Tehran, Moscow, etc know the cops would nail them before they could get their equipment set up. Go someplace else...

wigwag Wrote:
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> Its pretty sad when terrorists are looking for
> ways to kill us and cops think they're making
> things safer by trying to run harmless
> photographers out of town.


Well said. Everyone knows that terrorists and others with ill will would never pose as an "average Joe" as part of their agenda.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> wigwag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Its pretty sad when terrorists are looking for
> > ways to kill us and cops think they're making
> > things safer by trying to run harmless
> > photographers out of town.
>
> I dunno.
>
> A few years ago, I ran over some garbage on the
> ramp from NJ Turnpike exit 13A to US 1-9 North,
> adjacent to Newark Airport. Pulled over to make
> sure nothing was caught.
>
> Within 60 seconds, the first Port Authority police
> cruiser had pulled in behind me. Two man crew.
> Followed by another. I think they emerged from the
> bowels of the earth. They watched me check, then
> watched me leave. Sure they ran my plates,
> although they didn't ask for my ID. Harmless
> looking old guy driving a nondescript vehicle.
>
> If I was scouting an attack on the Newark Airport
> jet fuel tanks just across the fence line, fifty
> yards away, I'd be sure to let my buddies in
> Kabul, Islamabad, Tehran, Moscow, etc know the
> cops would nail them before they could get their
> equipment set up. Go someplace else...

exactly. pro-active police work is not popular with those attempting to cause problems......

66

Actually terrorists do pose as average people while testing the security at possible target locations during trial runs.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

My advice to any photographer who is confronted over there photography while clearly standing on public property should ask the confronter what they intend to do if the photographer continues his/her activities against the confronters demands. If the confronter, cop or otherwise, refuses to answer the question, quickly take the 5th and DO NOT show your ID. I speak from experience. We have a Constitutional right to free expression and the police must defend that right. Otherwise, take it to a private attorney.

wigwag Wrote:
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> My advice to any photographer who is confronted
> over there photography while clearly standing on
> public property should ask the confronter what
> they intend to do if the photographer continues
> his/her activities against the confronters
> demands. If the confronter, cop or otherwise,
> refuses to answer the question, quickly take the
> 5th and DO NOT show your ID. I speak from
> experience. We have a Constitutional right to free
> expression and the police must defend that right.
> Otherwise, take it to a private attorney.

NJ State Police recently paid a bundle to a Philadelphia lawyer on exactly that point. You have a constitutional right to decline to answer any question other than providing ID and papers.

The lady was busted for 50 in a 35 limit. Handed over her paperwork, as requested.

"Do you know why I stopped you?" No response
"Do you know you could be charged with obstruction of justice?" No response
Backup arrived, cuffed her, hauled her away. Tow called for her car.

Shift Leader: "We could lock you up for a while, how 'bout you talk?"
Her: "I did all the law requires me to do, call your legal officer in Trenton."

(Pause for phone call)

Shift Leader: "Ma'am, I'm sorry. Your car is being retrieved. No charges will be filed."

She filed notice of claim, the state agreed to pay, and to update training protocols. The tow guy had damaged her car, and some things were missing.

Speaking as a retired law enforcement officer not showing ID when demanded by law enforcement is not usually very smart, in some jurisdictions that alone is enough to cause your arrest. Provide the information the officer is asking for then take it up with his supervisor at the station. Arguing with a cop on the street is one of the most effective ways I know to get locked up in a hurry. In most jurisdictions you don't have any right to refuse to identify yourself. The courts have held for years that providing ID information in no way violates your rights under the fifth amendment. I speak from 30 years experience.

mmm1000 Wrote:
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> Speaking as a retired law enforcement officer not
> showing ID when demanded by law enforcement is not
> usually very smart, in some jurisdictions that
> alone is enough to cause your arrest. Provide the
> information the officer is asking for then take it
> up with his supervisor at the station. Arguing
> with a cop on the street is one of the most
> effective ways I know to get locked up in a hurry.
> In most jurisdictions you don't have any right to
> refuse to identify yourself. The courts have held
> for years that providing ID information in no way
> violates your rights under the fifth amendment. I
> speak from 30 years experience.

My mom is retired CHP (California Highway Patrol). She and many others, including countless attorneys who specialize on the subject all insist you do NOT have to show your ID to any law enforcement officer unless they are citing you for something. If they merely want to check you out, showing your ID is strictly voluntary.
Databases get hacked, including police databases. The more the police run ID checks on you, the more databases your info will be in and the better the chance your info will potentially be hacked. Im following the advice that Ive been told for years.