Western Railroad Discussion > Study: Implement a vehicle miles fee for highway trust fund

The Hill reports on a study funded by a right leaning think tank which advocates fees for use of highways based on miles driven.

Although President Trump expressed support for a 25 cents per gallon increase in the motor fuels tax, that did not make it into the infrastructure bill. A miles driven fee would capture use by electric and some hybrid vehicles. The article doesn't indicate whether the fee would also be weight adjusted to respect the impact made by heavy trucks.


http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/infrastructure/384680-lawmakers-should-pursue-vehicle-mileage-tax-to-save

And this has to do with trains because....?

An increase in truck fees will change the value proposition for long haul truck versus rail.

The change to electronic logbooks has already been fingered for increased costs and slower service for some providers.

Posted from Android

Chasing trains for photos all over the country will be more monitored and more costly! Next there will be a tax on every internet post, like this one, well anyway I hope not... === === = === JLH

What infrastructure bill? Not funded.

Mileage fees are skewed towards the vehicle is licensed. Gas tax fees better reflect where the vehicle is used.

I live in MT and register my car here. A mileage tax would would mean miles I drive to Portland would be paid to Montana rather than Oregon where the trip miles are actually driven. Montana has lots of highway miles and few state registered cars and trucks so my mileage rates could get to be incredibly high.

The system has some potential but needs to be carefully thought out.

fbe Wrote:
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> Mileage fees are skewed towards the vehicle is
> licensed. Gas tax fees better reflect where the
> vehicle is used.
>
> I live in MT and register my car here. A mileage
> tax would would mean miles I drive to Portland
> would be paid to Montana rather than Oregon where
> the trip miles are actually driven. Montana has
> lots of highway miles and few state registered
> cars and trucks so my mileage rates could get to
> be incredibly high.
>
> The system has some potential but needs to be
> carefully thought out.

The problem with hybrids and all electrics do not pay enough in fuel tax, and none at all for pure electric cars. The fuel tax is a straight usage tax that supports infrastructure costs both at a federal and state level, as it is collected.

An electronic mileage log on every car becomes a slippery slope as to what data is collected regarding driving habits in regards to locations and temperment of braking, acceleration and speeding. Not interested in Big Brother knowing where I go, Mr. Zuckerberger anyone????

While I applaud the previous administration for mandating a fuel efficiency increase of 35% in all cars produced starting in 2015, the legislation failed to increase fuel taxes to cover the lost revenue. A 35% increase in the Fed Tax would be a ~6.5 cent per gallon increase.

That being said, even Republican leaning states like my home state of Georgia and Tennessee have taken to raising the state fuel tax rates to cover the gap created at both the state and federal funding levels.

For the past 25 years Congress has kicked this can down The road in order to avoid facing their constituents at the polling booths.

Regards
Russ - Seller of Concrete and Steel soley for Roads, Bridges and Runways....

I support the need to have the growing electric car populations pay their way. But if they institute a mileage fee then then they better repeal the gas tax completely - no double dipping.

There is no real need to install GPS trackers. The DMV could just get odometer mileage off the car at the time of regestrstion and include the mileage fee with the cars registration. No need to overly complicate payment system and no need to track people's movements.

Posted from iPhone

I strolled through a big room full of displays on this subject at the Transportation Research Board's annual conference several years ago.
Many thoughtful people and institutions are working on this concept.
What impressed me was how much thought has to be given to making the system relatively impervious to game that people will try between States or regions with different revenue schemes. Many drivers live with range of a second or third State and could register, purchase fuel, etc. in the one with the best deal.
As a (retired) Civil Engineer, I believe a combination of weight and miles traveled is the basis for fairly collecting fees for maintenance and capacity improvements, plus some local tolls for expensive local features such as great bridges.
Railroads have always borne the expense of the product of their tons carried times their distance hauled in the form of maintenance of way.
This should bring some equality into the national economics of transportation.

I own a hybrid. Late Spring, Summer, and early Fall I get 45 mpg. As soon as I slap on studded tires all the way around it drops to 34 mpg. Up here in Maine they have been talking a tax on hybrids and electrics but so far it hasn't gone anywhere. Roads are bad compared to other places I have lived. Not sure what the answer is. Somebody will be unhappy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/18 16:31 by RS11.

"An electronic mileage log on every car becomes a slippery slope as to what data is collected regarding driving habits in regards to locations "

Much of this information - in perhaps even greater detail - is already at least available, if not collected, by tracking cell phone location. The cell system has to know the phone's location to complete a call.

I participated in a test of this concept here in California last year. Worked fine, no problems.
The motivation for this is that people are using less fuel and driving more miles, which reduces the amount of
money available to maintain roads. As more people drive electric vehicles the problem will worsen.
There are no free lunches.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

I drive more than most people (not counting truck drivers) in my personal car. I drove just a hair over 40k miles in the last year. My car gets 24mpg and Ohio charges $0.28 in taxes so I paid a little under $500 in fuel taxes. It isn't a huge amount of money to just pay yearly but count on the government to overly complicate the matter.

Everyone buys fuel where it is cheaper and to a lesser extent live where there are less taxes. I live in Ohio but worked in Indiana this past year. Mid summer Indiana raised their gas tax so I went from buying most all my fuel in Indiana to buying in Ohio.

Posted from iPhone

Most electric vehicles appear to be lighter than the gas counterparts.

The wear and tear on roadways is considerably less by these vehicles.

In the state I live in, I drive county roads and local roads. Most are dirt roads.

Now the argument could be, I do not use state or federally funded roads - so will this new tax pay for road improvements or pavement to be added based on my non-usage of state/federal gas funds collected?

Outside of the metro areas, there are many - many unpaved roads. Kansas, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Texas, Oklahoma - essentially the plains states to California.

Posted from iPhone

MP683 Wrote:
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> Most electric vehicles appear to be lighter than
> the gas counterparts.
>
> The wear and tear on roadways is considerably less
> by these vehicles.

Nope, actually just the reverse... Those batteries are heavy. The Tesla Model S at 4600lbs is almost 1000lbs heavier than any comparably sized conventional car. The 600-1000lbs increase in weight is also present in other electric cars. Hybrids are also typically heavier but not to the same extreme. I suspect that further development of lithium polymer and other battery technologies might change that one day.

SCUfoamer Wrote:
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> And this has to do with trains because....?

Road use fees indexed to not just miles traveled but weight relative to initial engineered design costs and long-term maintenance costs will increase OTR trucking costs somewhere between 10% and 20% (pick your study, various states and universities). That positions freight rail in a better position by reflecting a more realistic cost of OTR trucking.

It does not account for the risk-free capitalization (non) cost that trucking enjoys on infrastructure investment. As close to an equalizer in that may be in either full tax credits to freight railroads for property (I’ll let one of the key advocates of that decide to chime in if he wishes), or full tax credits for all infrastructure investments (including land acquisition, streamlining of 19th and early 20th century alignments, main track/siding/signaling expansion, and new/expanded/modernized terminal facilities with an emphasis on intermodal), or better yet both.

There are two aspects of this. First, it makes true trucking costs as transparent and real as is possible. Second, it comes as close to equalizing the risk factor of private infrastructure investment that freight rail has with public-funded infrastructure investment that trucking has. That plays a significant role in the disparity that currently exists, by incentivizing freight rail C-suite folks to increase investment by substantially lowering risks in long-term capitalization.

That is what this has to do with trains….

Bruce

Interesting comment on the use of cell phone data to "track" mileage ...
but how would "they" know how I got from PtA to PtB ... I could have been on Amtrak ...

Odyssey
Evergreen, CO

Just add a Federal gas tax of a buck a gallon, no exceptions whatsoever, and be done with it. Said revenues ONLY to be used for highway infrastructure repairs/improvements. That should drive lots of vehicles off the highway/encourage car pooling/trailers on trains, etc.

utwazoo Wrote:
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> Just add a Federal gas tax of a buck a gallon, no
> exceptions whatsoever, and be done with it. Said
> revenues ONLY to be used for highway
> infrastructure repairs/improvements. That should
> drive lots of vehicles off the highway/encourage
> car pooling/trailers on trains, etc.

A buck per gallon tax would likely increase the attractiveness of electric cars, too.

Posted from Android

I am happy about electronic log books.

I live in Indiana and half the time the weigh stations are closed at the Ohio border on I 70. There are only about 8 in the whole state. You can drive from Indy to almost Ft. Wayne without seeing one. No wonder I 69 is trashed.

It is common to see trucks carrying huge loads of hardwood logs after dark on state highways.

But Indiana, being pro-business to the max, just allows it.