Western Railroad Discussion > OERM's Perris Connection

I have been a member of OERM  #405,  since 1966. In my younger years I was quite active at the museum, and saw a lot of changes.  In recent years,  I haven't been that

active, and sort of been "out of the  loop" as far as activites, problems and major policy changes.  Most of the members I knew well, have gotten older and passed away.

I try to keep up on things by reading the OERM Gazette, but that only  covers a small fraction of all the news.  One of the things that has been bothering me the last few years

is the failure to complete the last leg of the Perris Connection,  which will finally connect the museum with the City of Perris depot and Metrolink station.  I can find anyone who

can tell me what the delay is on this project.  At first the project was progressing very well, with Metorlink building the platforms and station structures,  which also included a

"Pocket Track" for the museum to have a platform right next to Metrolinks area.  For years, the area for the pocket track has been complete, and the rail crossing for that track

across 4Th Street completed.  There appears to be less then 1/4 mile of track to be built between the depot and the end of museum track near 7Th street.  So..after the big and

rapid construction to get this project underway,  why has progress been stopped for several years?.  I was one of the many who contributed money to fund  this connection, and

this connection to Perris has been a dream for the members from day I joined the museum in 1966.   Does anyone have any facts and  information about this delay?   Thank You

Jeff Butler

 

This is only conjecture, based on the facts you state, but I would not be surprised if the museum reconsidered being an insular railroad under FRA, and becoming non-insular or even general system by making the connection. The grade crossing increases the FRA class of operation and the amount of responsibility for regulatory compliance.

TL

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/18 14:34 by TorchLake.

Jeff, as far as I know, it is a matter of money. I seem to recall a quote of at least a million dollars to connect with the Metrolink station. I believe Phil has built the necessary switches for the connection. I think we have the equipment for the interlocking signals. I amsure there are issues with Metrolink. I agree that the membership should be informed but the board and other upper echelon people are not forthcoming! Eventually it will get done. It will do little to change the operating routine for the museum as there are no connecting trains to Perris on the weekends and on week days there would be no trains operating from the Museum to the Perris station.

Politics.

All ready to go, just need okay.

Loose Lips Sink Ships

Be patient.

I concur with some of this, but the one line in the original post bothers me: we donated money for the project. These monies should have been kept in a separate account to fund the crossing, and connections to Metrolink.

When 3751 gets finished from it boiler inspection, there should be a special train from LA to Perris. A full day at the museum, food, special runs of equipment. Put the dismal in the rear, just like they do in England. Use the dismal to pull back to Riverside or SB.

I would ride it

Posted from iPhone

"Metrolink" is really five county agencies, in this case Riverside County Transportation Commission.
When I worked on the engineering for the Perris Valley line we were very careful not to have any of the Federal money go towards work that was out of the scope of the grant, like a museum connecting track.
If auditors for the Feds found such a charge they could cancel the whole funding arrangement; just guarding the taxpayer's interest.
We did get the basic footprint designed and included because it was no extra cost.  OERM did (AFAIK, and I was a contributor) fund the physical road crossing at 4th St. sp it would only be opened up once.
The concept was that each RR protected against the other with the crossover, acting as a switch point derail.   If the crossover was reversed it would set red signals on Metrolink CTC and on OERM. 
But the funds to have the turnout and electric locked switch installed on the Metrolink track never came from either RCTC or the OERM.
None of this post explains why OERM cannot simply close the gap, and even put in their half of the crossover, to get to Perris.
As with the fellows above, I would like to know.

The switch was installed two years ago when track was upgraded, and is still in place now. The connecting track was laid and the VC 2 ran over it for the opening ceremonies at the depot. Then RCTC took up the connecting track. All we need now is an okay to put it back in. It's about a 421 ffoot gap to complete it and does not cross any street..

Watts local

Ok, this information isn't totally correct.  Yes, there is about a 400 gap between the current north end of the OERM mainline and the installed switch on the Metrolink mainline.  Yes, at one time it was connected, temporarily.  But the Perris Connection is more than just connecting the OERM main to the Metrolink main.  To finish the project, OERM would need to install about 350 feet of track, then install a turnout (switch) as the Connection is basically a crossover.  THEN another 400 feet of track to get to the 4th Street grade crossing, which has track already installed.  AFTER THAT, the OERM has to install 450 feet of track in the pocket at the new station....a pocket which was filled to the top with ballast.  Before any track can be installed in the pocket, all that ballast has to be moved.  Also don't forget the Connection is to a signalled track so their is signalling and other related systems (PTC?) that must be installed.

This is a lot of work for a project that the musuem doesn't seem to need in the short term.  Long term it wil be a great addition to the musuem, but if they take it slow then so be it.

Finally, I am confused by the original poster statement that this has been a dream since 1966.  The musuem was connected to the Santa Fe, later BNSF track at Perris for a long time.  I remember riding a train into the Perris depot back in the late 1980's or so.  It was only when the trackage was upgraded for Metrolink that the direct connect was lost.  Do you mean a musuem owned track into the depot that they can use full-time?

wattslocal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The switch was installed two years ago when track
> was upgraded, and is still in place now. The
> connecting track was laid and the VC 2 ran over it
> for the opening ceremonies at the depot. Then RCTC
> took up the connecting track. All we need now is
> an okay to put it back in. It's about a 421 ffoot
> gap to complete it and does not cross any
> street..
>
> Watts local

ATSF was very friebdly in years past, OERM  ran several trains, both toward Highgrove and one to Hemet without incident. A good time had by all.Also OERM ran a train to San Bernardino with ATSF in charge for the movie "The Changling". But that was in the good old days.

In today;s world, things have changed.

As I remember OERM paid dearly (thousands) for the connecting switch and the three crossings. All materials are on hand to complete the job in a very short time, but nothing can be done until RCTC says okay.

Watts local

 

When I said that the Perris connection had been a dream, since the beginning of the museum, I was talking about a permanent dedicated line from the museum to the Perris depot.  Yes, OERM was connected to ATSF in years past, but first
it was just snap track, to get equipment on to the Museum property.  Later on the museum had a permanent track North, just to the north side of 7th street. Then it tied into ATSF with a switch.  The museum was allowed to go onto ATSF
rails for special occasions,to the depot, such as Rail Festival. The original plan was for the museum to have its own trackage,  with a protected switch connecting to ATSF, for bringing in or taking out museum rolling stock, and perhaps excursions to Hemet
or Highgrove.  When Metrolink arrive, I understand that they worked closely with OERM and the City of Perris, to make sure that the museum was a partner in the overall plan of having a Metrolink transit station in Perris

So, someone has either dropped the ball, or one of the participants in the Perris Connection plan is NOT fulfilling the agreement in good faith. From what I understand, OERM, has the materials...ties, rails..hardware on hand to finish the connection.
The labor would be provided by museum members and volunteers.  Extra costs would probably be incurred if a contractor came in to do the final aligning, and tamping the ballast. Other items such as signals installation is not beyond the skills of the
museum Signal Department. 

In years past,  "BT" ( Before Thomas) the museum was basically a dedicated group of Volunteers,  who loved trains and railroading and they wanted to create a museum to able to run their restored rolling stock.  I have heard it mentioned many
times in the OERM Gazette, that since Thomas arrived,  the museum had to turn itself around from being more like a "club" and instead become a professionally run serious museum.  The income from Thomas, has made that possible. The
museum is more of a business now, doing bigger, more expensive improvements and in turn having more responsibility.  Therefore, it should be a high priority to finish this important project that we started, years ago.  I remember years ago,
standing out in front of the Perris Depot, as officers from OERM, representatives from Metrolink, and members of the City of Perris government,  stood in a line, and took the first shovels of dirt to kick off this important project.  It was an
enthusiastic group, with a "can do" attitude to get this project on the road, and see it to completion in a timely manner.    So...WHAT HAPPENED ??     Although I'm not privy to the inner circle of the OERM executive board,  I wonder if perhaps
the current officers, do not have the enthusiasm, the interest, or the passion for the museum, as the leaders in the  past, especially in the early years of the museum.?   I guess time will tell

Jeff Butler

All OERM needs right now is an approval from RCTC. Hopes are high still. There are four cars in LA that need to be moved asap.

Maybe after it is all over, more could be told.

All we want for Christmas is a connection ! !

Watts local

I Think Jeff is basically asking for a bit more candor from those in the "upper eschelons" as to the status of the Perris Connection. I don't think that is asking too much! Those of us who work at the back of the museum trying to keep a maximum number of locomotive functional for the operational needs of the museum sometimes feel like we are working in a vacuum! We could do with more candor! IMHO

Just to add my two cents worth, I was one of those who dreamed of being able to park at the depot, buy a ticket and ride a train to the museum.  But the climate of today's world versus the way things were in 1971 are as different as night and day.  The enormous cost of extending the main line for a mere three blocks just doesn't seem to justify the benefits of doing so.  The depot museum doesn't strike me as a major tourist draw and there isn't a whole lot to do in downtown Perris.  We were sold on the idea of being able to step off of a Metrolink train and onto a museum train but scheduling makes that impossible.  IMHO, the tremendous amount of money spent on this effort could have been put to better use on other projects.  I am curious as to the price tag of this connection when all is said and done.  It may be the most expensive three block extension in history. 

And yes, I'd like to see more information about this and other projects in the Gazette.  The Gazette seems to have become more of a publicity tool than an informational newsletter.

Charles Brown

When Metrolink service is available on weekends to connect with the museum trains, it could be worth it all.
Funding of the trains are an issue, as it has to come from the Riverside County Transportation Commission, where the major word is HIGHWAYS along with having a co-operative staff from Metrolink  management.  The new CEO of Metrolink, may provide a new view  She knows were Perris is.

As a former President of the Museum, I must agree with Charlie, Jeff and Tom.
I hear this from  members that I still see from time to time.

Even at the resent 60th Anniversary Event, the Chill was in the Air!

Where were the Board Members?   None were introduced. 

Do not get me wrong, I think progress is being made thanks to LOTS of hard work from volunteer's and money received from the Thomas Trains.  I and the wife remain proud of our early involvement with management and lots of grunts and sore backs 1958-1972.  Members # 23 and 42.

This was a now or never opportunity to extend our track to the station. Yes, expensive, but should be a worthwhile improvement for the future. I believe it has all been paid for, only the final OCTC okay and then the work can begin. All materials are on our property, switch, track panels, signal equiopment and ballast aranged for.  There has been a real news blackout from the Board on this project for good reason.

Ray Ballash

Actually I think the actual connection is more important than the station track. I think it will be a long time before there is any weekend service from South Perris. RCTC has been conspicuously silent on ridership! Unless they can extend service closer to Hemet, I don't see how the PVL can remain viable except as a storage station!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/18 12:33 by TomPlatten.