Western Railroad Discussion > Biden urges Congress to shove TA down our throats

"Vote your jobs" the unions said. "It'll be fine", they said.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/11/28/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-averting-a-rail-shutdown/

What a joke.

Democrats are friend of unions.....

"As a proud pro-labor president"...[proceeds advocate for and justify preventing labor from excerising their only remainging leverage]. Personally, I didn't expect this one. Back in september, when Reublican senators tried to introduce anti-strike legislation based off the TA, Dems seemed very sympathetic to labor. That was also election season. Stepping onto my soapbox, it's worth noting that both parties have shown their true colors now, with the R's in congress trying to shove the TA down people's throats in September and the D's now trying to shove it down people's throats after elections. On the other hand, Bernie Sanders, the guy many on this site undoubtably consider a loon, was the one who blocked the TA legislation in September and Biden preemptively addresses when talking about "well intentioned" people who risk econimic disaster trying to improve the deal for labor. There's a reason "they" spend a lot of time and money trying to convice you what he and "the left" says is crazy radical talk....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/22 18:41 by suvart.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Vote your jobs" the unions said. "It'll be fine",
> they said.
>
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statement
> s-releases/2022/11/28/statement-from-president-joe
> -biden-on-averting-a-rail-shutdown/


Did you think it would end any other way?

SpringedSwitch Wrote:
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> Did you think it would end any other way?

No, not really. I expected this but had a glimmer of hope the Dems would do the right thing at the last minute. After all, Joe claims to be a "proud pro-labor President". Just more lies from this administration.

Railroaders across the United States had their BEST chance and closest opportunity within the past 30 years to successfully hold a multi-day workers strike this past September 2022, for real/long lasting  (cost of living) wages and quality of life improvements. I'd bet money that it'll be another 30 years before those few remaining Rails get their next best chance. Only the threat(s) of re-election prospects lit the smallest fire under anyone in the US government to do something, now with the 2022 mid-terms over, and everyone full of turkey, now ready for their holiday break... This deal is over. Its only a matter of days before the PEB decision is crammed down our throats.


~ Mr. MRL


 

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Railroaders across the United States had their
> BEST chance and closest opportunity within the
> past 30 years to successfully hold a multi-day
> workers strike this past September 2022, for
> real/long lasting  (cost of living) wages and
> quality of life improvements. I'd bet money that
> it'll be another 30 years before those few
> remaining Rails get their next best chance. Only
> the threat(s) of re-election prospects lit the
> smallest fire under anyone in the US government to
> do something, now with the 2022 mid-terms over,
> and everyone full of turkey, now ready for their
> holiday break... This deal is over. Its only a
> matter of days before the PEB decision is crammed
> down our throats.
>
>
> ~ Mr. MRL
>
>
>  

 I agree 100%.  What a tremendous blown opportunity to try to make some meaningful reforms.  I hope the extra cash was REALLY worth t.

suvart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "As a proud pro-labor president".... Personally, I
> didn't expect this one. Back in september, when
> Reublican senators tried to introduce anti-strike
> legislation based off the TA, Dems seemed very
> sympathetic to labor. That was also election
> season. Stepping onto my soapbox, it's worth
> noting that both parties have shown their true
> colors now, with the R's in congress trying to
> shove the TA down people's throats in September
> and the D's now trying to shove it down people's
> throats after elections. On the other hand, Bernie
> Sanders, the guy many on this site undoubtably
> consider a loon, was the one who blocked the TA
> legislation in September and Biden preemptively
> addresses when talking about "well intentioned"
> people who risk econimic disaster trying to
> improve the deal for labor. There's a reason
> "they" spend a lot of time and money trying to
> convice you what he and "the left" says is crazy
> radical talk....

Well, like a broken clock that has the correct time twice a day, Bernie swerved into the correct side of this argument.  There IS a reason Joe Biden was resurrected by the party from the ash heap of failed campaigns and broken dreams, and that reason is Bernie Sanders.

I agree with Mr. MRL 100% also.

Sam

Yah well, I'm comcerned about money, see that nice 8.7% SSA raise? Well it's all been eaten up by everything from a rise in HOA to an increase
in every form of insurance imaginable. You get a little self centered when you're worried about running out of money at some point and for those
living paycheck to paycheck they find themselves in the same boat. You see the population complaining about the direction of the country and
by and large re-elect those who brought them there. I've written letters to house people but the new house isn't going to take effect until January
so we're stuck with what we've got, and what we've got has been told that the rails were getting a big raise and a great deal. The people of the
rail industry need a louder voice and evidently not that of the union.

Out 

A railroad strike would really screw up the economy for everyone.  Presidents have very few powers to deal with economic problems, but preventing a railroad strike affecting the supply chain of bulk commodities is definitely one of them.  Even the most pro-union President is going to make the choice that the economy comes first.  That, plus idiots Manchin and Sinema holding back what can be passed in the Senate means that compromises have to be made with Republicans, and we know they'd be happy to screw the workers. Basically, Biden had no choice but to do what he just did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/22 00:02 by radar.

Last thing I am is gullible but then you look at all those looking to the union to come to their rescue and tell me
who is gullible. The bottom line to all this is that you have to do what I did and millions of others have done, if
the job isn't working, then move on. That may sound simplistic but the Class 1s aren't going to blink until they
run out of workers. They fully expect the rank and file to take the agreement, grumble a lot and then move on,
that's the way it's always been. You look at 30/60 and tell me how many other industries have 30 year tenure
employees? The Class 1s have most rails in a corner in that they can't really afford to just quit and again the
board rooms are depending on that. This is pretty much the defintion of a rock and a hard place.

Out 

Typhoon Wrote:
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> Democrats are friend of unions.....

when the big banks are involved, political parties carry no weight.

who REALLY owns the rr's?

pdt Wrote:
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> OK...I hate to chime in....but i went thru
> something similar to this years ago.
>
> The real problem,,in the long run..is the american
> public's insatiable appetite for money.  While i
> agree totally with the rank and file here, the
> American public, overall, could give a rats ass
> less about the working conditions on the
> railroads, if its gonna cost them an extra 5 cents
> a gallon for gas, or might slow delivery of their
> fav automobile.     If the president
> represents all the ppl of the US, well the current
> course of this here United States of America, is
> "every person for themselves"....screw your
> neighbor, if its an extra nickel in your pocket.
>
> Over the last 50 years, the govt has kowtowed to
> big business more and more every year.    The
> pendulum has swung back to the gilded age,  altho
> this time the robber barons are lesser known kings
> of wall street, with their homes in the hamptons
> and around the world.
>
> Biden,  FWIW, is just following the political
> climate.     Its unfortunate, but the American
> people, in general, could care less about the
> working conditions on the Railroads.  Especially
> the ever increasing number of non-union workers
> out there who are already working in crappy
> conditions.  You think they care?  
> The only way the class 1's will decide to improve
> working conditions, is if they just cant get
> enough ppl to work for them.  Unfortunately,
> there always seem to be, at least so far, a crowd
> of 20 somethings who are happy to work without any
> other life,as long as there is a big salary.
>
> Jeff Bezos has come out and said..Paraphrasing...I
> dont want any long term devoted employees.  I
> just want 20 somethings that will work for 3-5
> years and then go somewhere else when they decide
> they want a job and a life.   Let them work
> there asses off here, burn out, and quit.  We can
> always get more overly eager 20 year olds.
>
> Thats the state of america these days.   When it
> comes to voting, u gotta go with the lesser of the
> evils.  I just dont understand those in the rank
> and file who vote for the ppl who hate them...like
> its some kind of protest vote thats gonna help.
>
> Keep the faith.  Im hoping for the best for
> everyone..but this country is pretty fked up right
> now, IMHO.
   Nailed It!!

This whole labor issue boils down to supply and demand.  As long as people are willing to work like slaves, for whatever their reasons, there will be substandard working conditions.  Paraphrasing an earlier poster,  big companies don't care about how its done, just that its done.  If they can still move freight as cheaply as possible, they will, regardless of whom it grinds  down in the process.  At the corporate decision making level, they deal in cold, faceless numbers, charts, and graphs, generated by the most disconnected bean counters they can hire.  The costs associated with employees is figured right in with the life cycles  of the machines they operate.  And while this paints the picture of cold hearted, gray skinned demons running the corporate office,  we must remember  recent court decisions and associated laws that force corporate executives to make the highest operating ratios possible or face litigation by stock holder groups.  The ONLY way employees can fight this in a quasi free market economy is to quit, en-mass.  Companies must get desperate enough to start incentivizing the jobs they offer, in order to attract and retain people.  Poorly run, short sighted companies will hemorrhage talented people until they either, finally wake up or parish.  This is currently being played out all across the labor market and is characterized as the "great resignation."  The only trump card the railroads have in the long run, is near total automation--and this may, in fact, be their ultimate strategy, breaking unions in the process.  The technology is being pieced together as we speak,  and there will likely be carnage on the rails as it is implemented here.  It will start in phases, across large underpopulated expanses in the west.  On short passenger runs, and other high density or specialized operations,  like switching crews will remain, at least for a time.  If you are an old fart like me you have seen this industry change a great deal, and there are structural changes yet to come, not to mention the possibility of an open access system.  But that's an argument for another thread.   For now the choice for rails seems to be knuckle under or vote with your feet.  Yes, it does indeed suck.

My simplistic view of things, it seem the Union screwed their members.  A few months ago it was announced Biden had negotiated a deal between the Unions and the railroads.  When the details came out it was apparent this was a lousy deal.  Why did the Unions go along with this? They should have known the membership wasn't going to go for this. The momentum was there and public opinion was with the rail workers.  Now the election is done, the media has moved on and the momentum is gone.

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

webmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My simplistic view of things, it seem the Union
> screwed their members.  A few months ago it was
> announced Biden had negotiated a deal between the
> Unions and the railroads.  When the details came
> out it was apparent this was a lousy deal.  Why
> did the Unions go along with this?  The momentum
> was there and public opinion was with the rail
> workers.  Now the election is done, the media has
> moved on and the momentum is gone.

Agreed, and the carriers probably counted on the disunity amongst union members playing into their hands. The leadership shouldn't have presented it to the members, but the membership had their moment to reject it, and on the whole blew it. Both sides together...

JG  



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/22 09:06 by jgilmore.

jgilmore Wrote:
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> Agreed, and the carriers probably counted on the
> disunity amongst union members playing into their
> hands. The leadership shouldn't have presented it
> to the members, but the membership had their
> moment to reject it, and on the whole blew it.
> Both sides together...

I've heard a lot about union leadership who has been away from the work so long that they don't know what it is like. Railroading has deteriorated quickly in the past decade. It it doesn't take being away for long to not have personal knowledge of the conditions. However, even at the slower pace of change 40 years ago, I had that problem with ATDA (train dispatchers).

The members - chances are pretty good that they have reached the fatalist view that it's not going to get any better, might as well vote for it because that's what will be forced on them anyway.

The whole system needs to be scrapped and reinvented.

TAW

Typhoon Wrote:
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> Democrats are friend of unions.....
It used to be that the Democratic Party was known as the party of the working man. Now IMHO, they care no more for the working man than they do for the man in the moon!