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Date: 03/26/23 15:09
UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: callum_out

News blurb on UP and the 2 man crew issue, guess they too are hearing the handwriting on the wall!'

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/business/article/up-becomes-second-railroad-to-drop-push-for-17861017.php

Out



Date: 03/26/23 18:57
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: dragoon

watch how fast UP changes its mind as the memory of E Palestine fades



Date: 03/26/23 19:03
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: callum_out

Funny you should mention that, I had that thought as well.

Out 



Date: 03/26/23 20:14
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: krm152

Thanks Out for your posting.  It is really a shame that it took a disaster to change management's mind on this issue.
The idea of sending out a train with a 1 Man "Crew" is simply untenable.
The railroads can enhance shareholder value by increasing their traffic volumes and employing best management practices.
My comment is from the viewpoint of a shareholder.
ALLEN

.

 



Date: 03/26/23 20:48
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: JGFuller

What does crew size have to do with the E. Palestine derailment?



Date: 03/26/23 22:40
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: Texican65

JGFuller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does crew size have to do with the E.
> Palestine derailment?

Lots.

If perhaps there had been a 3 or 5 man crew onboard with a couple guys on the rear and swing…they’d have seen the bearing smoking and stopped the train before it stopped itself and shit all over those people’s properties.

Or at any point during the trip if another train crew with multiple men on the ground gave a roll by inspection, with a man on either side as in days past, they might have caught it before it derailed. A squared away conductor and brakeman can hear or smell defects like these, in addition to seeing them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/23 22:42 by Texican65.



Date: 03/27/23 02:12
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: JGFuller

The failed bearing was 23 cars deep. That it was flaming was caught by a lineside camera 10 miles before the derailment. There were 3 people in the cab.

From the introduction to the NTSB's preliminary report:  "  There were no reported fatalities or injuries. "



Date: 03/27/23 06:31
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: ns1000

This is about "the HEAT being turned UP" on the industry, specifically the large Carriers.

No worries though, one man crews/ground based conductors will be pushed again.......mark my words.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/27/23 06:42
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: BAB

Texican65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JGFuller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does crew size have to do with the E.
> > Palestine derailment?
>
> Lots.
>
> If perhaps there had been a 3 or 5 man crew
> onboard with a couple guys on the rear and
> swing…they’d have seen the bearing smoking and
> stopped the train before it stopped itself and
> shit all over those people’s properties.
>
> Or at any point during the trip if another train
> crew with multiple men on the ground gave a roll
> by inspection, with a man on either side as in
> days past, they might have caught it before it
> derailed. A squared away conductor and brakeman
> can hear or smell defects like these, in addition
> to seeing them.

From an experience still in my mind 60yrs later there was a normal crew on a diesel powered freight, normal crew on the caboose too.  Local freight nor really too long going thru the fields dayllight hours no wind. About mid train could see it coming from the truck I was driving, went out next to the tracks waiting for the caboose. It came into view with a crew man standing on my side me yelling hot box holding my nose. Result guy waved and smiled  train kept going out of sight several fires started way down the track. Now about catching things thought from many posts in TO over the last few years this would have been caught  just saying.



Date: 03/27/23 06:45
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: engineerinvirginia

One thought that the carriers themselves have quietly acknowledged...is if they don't get one man crews soon...it might be 50 years before they can try again...so.....let's hope it's that and more. 



Date: 03/27/23 06:50
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: goneon66

how about in the past where 2 crew members have noticed defects on either their train or other passing trains that have prevented possible derailments?  

too bad those incidents were not documented.............

66



Date: 03/27/23 06:53
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: engineerinvirginia

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how about in the past where 2 crew members have
> noticed defects on either their train or other
> passing trains that have prevented possible
> derailments?  
>
> too bad those incidents were not
> documented.............
>
> 66

And how quickly those problems get fixed??? Like this is a near everyday occurrence....stuck brake 20 cars back? You'll see the smoking brake shoe in curves.....stop...bleed brake off....proceed, not 15 minutes lost. 



Date: 03/27/23 11:18
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: Drknow

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Texican65 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JGFuller Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What does crew size have to do with the E.
> > > Palestine derailment?
> >
> > Lots.
> >
> > If perhaps there had been a 3 or 5 man crew
> > onboard with a couple guys on the rear and
> > swing…they’d have seen the bearing smoking
> and
> > stopped the train before it stopped itself and
> > shit all over those people’s properties.
> >
> > Or at any point during the trip if another
> train
> > crew with multiple men on the ground gave a
> roll
> > by inspection, with a man on either side as in
> > days past, they might have caught it before it
> > derailed. A squared away conductor and brakeman
> > can hear or smell defects like these, in
> addition
> > to seeing them.
>
> From an experience still in my mind 60yrs later
> there was a normal crew on a diesel powered
> freight, normal crew on the caboose too.  Local
> freight nor really too long going thru the fields
> dayllight hours no wind. About mid train could see
> it coming from the truck I was driving, went out
> next to the tracks waiting for the caboose. It
> came into view with a crew man standing on my side
> me yelling hot box holding my nose. Result guy
> waved and smiled  train kept going out of sight
> several fires started way down the track. Now
> about catching things thought from many posts in
> TO over the last few years this would have been
> caught  just saying.

I would venture that 90% of my terminal doesn’t know the hand signal for “Hot Box” Hell most of them don’t know 90% of hand signals, period.
Sad.

Regards

Posted from iPhone



Date: 03/27/23 13:27
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: JGFuller

Well, there's always the trusty Rule 12[h] (GCOR 5.3.4): Any object waved violently by anyone on or near track is a signal to stop.



Date: 03/27/23 13:44
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: callum_out

Give'em the washout and see if they respond but who are you signalling? You'd have to jump in your car and
beat the train to the next crossing to get their attention and then hope that they thought you were serious.

Out 



Date: 03/27/23 15:09
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: PHall

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give'em the washout and see if they respond but
> who are you signalling? You'd have to jump in your
> car and
> beat the train to the next crossing to get their
> attention and then hope that they thought you were
> serious.
>
> Out 

You'd probably do better calling the 800 number on the side of the grade crossing equipment box.



Date: 03/27/23 15:58
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: bradleymckay

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give'em the washout and see if they respond but
> who are you signalling? You'd have to jump in your
> car and
> beat the train to the next crossing to get their
> attention and then hope that they thought you were
> serious.
>
> Out 

Some of the UP dispatchers (all?) get a detector's hot wheel alarm on their computer screen. I've heard dispstchers radio the train with the exact axle. Rule is then 30mph to next detector. If the next detector sends out a hot wheel alert train must stop and inspect.

Allen

Posted from Android



Date: 03/27/23 16:50
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: callum_out

That's all correct and from I've seen is followed to the letter. I was referring to a railfan making some signal to
alert the train manually from the ground.

Out 



Date: 03/27/23 20:19
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: trainjunkie

engineerinvirginia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And how quickly those problems get fixed??? Like
> this is a near everyday occurrence....stuck brake
> 20 cars back? You'll see the smoking brake shoe in
> curves.....stop...bleed brake off....proceed, not
> 15 minutes lost. 

This is spot-on. Few ever hear about it when it happens.



Date: 03/27/23 22:31
Re: UP and 2 Man Crews
Author: callum_out

Be interested to hear about the rest of the UP but anymore the conductor isn't the primary on hot wheels, it's
the responder. The conductor will assist if it appears that a 2nd person is needed to expedite the issue,

Out 



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