Western Railroad Discussion > Summit Security: anybody remember what started this???

Before I go into a long tirade, how many of you remember the reason Summit (Cajon Pass) security was started in the first place???

It all stemmed from a major derailment 9(?) years ago...


AM

Others may be more knowledgable about specifics, but my understanding is that a runaway caused by a closed angle cock precipitated the enhanced security at Summit...some thought that it may have been caused by vandals. I would not be surprised if it was more of a response to the increased activity of professional thieves that would break into stopped stack trains on both the High (Santa Fe) and Low (SP) Desert.

Ron

http://rlehmer.50megs.com/photos/

I believe that the air line on an autorack was severely bent when the car was coupled to another one, the cushioned coupler was busted. This caused two thirds of the train to not have any air as it went down the hill.


BTW, from my previous Cajon thread, here is Summit's Sunday security. "Olympic Security" and for those who care, plate # is 5GTK080. The dude was in his early 20s, looked like a local Phelan resident.

Robby F. (Mr. MRL)

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thanks I'll let you know off line....

Alan, don't hold back. I have a few rants myself about this ignorance
that is passed off as "security". Turning Summit into Fort Summit is
one thing, but these bozos want to extend their authority onto non BNSF
property. Sadly, all that is accomplished is a false sense of security.
The notion that we're surrounded by aspiring train-wreckers, but the
courageous BNSF security team is thwarting them daily is insane.

Then again, I'm sure that some believe that consfiscating tweezers
from elderly ladies at the airport is smart policy also.

The shifting rationalizations for these rent-a-cops reminds me of
our dear leaders in Washington and their "reason of the week" for
Iraq, tax-cuts, social security "deform", etc.

Oh yea RP I'll vent all right, but I gotta go to work first...

BTW it reminds me of the "security fence" at Verdemont, yet there's no rent a cops there?! What a joke...


AM

I think around the first of the 1996

Please...last weekend I found the rent a cop asleep in his truck under the 138 overpass next to main 1. I guess it makes for nice mid day shade after a good McDonalds breakfast.

Fort Summit is the result of many small events that eventually became to costly and expensive for the Santa Fe and Union Pacific Railroads, to ignore. This isn't the result of BNSF thinking but I will explain as I continue.

My first recollection of problems at and around the summit specifically Martinez Spur, goes back approximately 15 to 20 years ago. Trains stopping adjacent to the Martinez spur were getting robbed by a group that camped just north west of the spur, in a small canyon.

That was just one incident. Why, railfans are always suspect and are looked up-on with suspicion by the railroads eludes me. It might have to do with the fellow who set up his tripod and movie camera right in the middle of the number two track at the summit. If a Santa Fe Police Officer hadn't dragged him out of the way to safety, in time, he might of become a permanent hood ornament.

Don't get me wrong Fort Summit wasn't put in place the result of these events, alone. Let's see drugs being shipped via rail were being dropped and retrieved at Martinez spur. Computers and other hardware removed and sold on the black market.

Then the train accident afore mentioned. What I still don't understand is when the air is pulled, dumped or released the train goes into an emergency stop. There should have been plenty of breaking on that downhill train. Unless, the air was bled off completely from the reserve tanks. I suspect this is the culprit.

Now then, as Phelan, Ca., grew and Hesperia, Ca., grew toward the mainline with easy access for dirt bikes, quads and 4x4's. Kids and adults were pushing these joy rides dangerously close to the trains and going so far as to experiment jumping onto the trains, while moving, for sport.
To be picked up at the summit or going the other direction as the trains slowed as they peaked into Hesperia, CA.

Oh, I know this isn't what we railfans want to hear. Santa Fe and Union Pacific had plans on the table long before, the said train accident, to bring security back to the summit. I am aware of plans dateing back to 1988 to place security on the summit. Seems, one of my former employees had applied for the job as a security officer, for a corporation Santa Fe was contracting with. And, they called me for a recommendation.

Stepping further back in time, when the summit was host to agents like Chard Walker and others the problems and infractions were minor. Just those darn door slammers that visited the Walkers on weekends and holidays. >:-)

The fence put in at Verdemont, Ca was designed to catch the thieves that rode the trains throwing off cargo to the waiting get away vehicles. The idea was for security to spot these culprits on board and have the train brought to a stop at Verdemont. Stopping between the two fences, close off both ends and do a search, working toward the middle of the train. However, certain management suits decided the time it took was costly and the practice was abandoned. Most would be outlaws were jumping off the train before it arrived at Verdemont. Why ride into a trap?

The summit at Cajon Pass, Ca has once again come back to life. As crew changes occur there and security does it's job. And, yes, sadly, we railfans have been shut out. Not much we can do about this and all the whining...well, it isn't going to change things. Vent and get it out... Just don't shoot the messenger on the way out. Ouch!

RickH

Still, most railfans know how to use saftey, it sucks when one jerk messes it up for eveyrone else, and just because you got sercurity doesn't mean there won't be any runaways. Eveyone I hope on this board remembers waht happened 11 years ago when that stack trains collided with that UP Coal Drag which was just sitting there waiting for No. 3, then a few months later, which began that, was when that short manifest lost it also and Santa Fe Beleived it was sabatoge, but there wasn't evidence to prove it!

When I was a deputy, Cajon Pass was my beat. I spent countless hours on those dirt roads between Frost and highway 138. It was my home away from home. On both Santa Fe and SP rights-of way. One of my target details was to assist in catching thieves stealing car parts from a cut of cars left at Martinez by a Santa Fe train, then picked up later by a Texas bound train. This was a regular move and Santa Fe lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to that bunch. But we caught 'em. In all the years I patrolled Cajon Pass, I was always friendly toward the fans, and even with the nimrods I took the time to give safety counseling sessions. I had breakfast at fans campsites at Summit. I got picture taking tips from some of them. I learned a lot about the history of Cajon Pass from some of the older fans. At one time, I knew every rabbit trail from 138 to Hesperia. Nothing can beat a sunrise at Summit. It used to be a place where you thought you were hundreds of miles from anything civilized, just a short drive from the city. But because of numerous incidents over the last 10 years, it's now what you call "Fort Summit" and it's a damned shame. It's just a shame that these security lizards can't muster up some people skills. I was always able to differentiate between the friendlies and the bums. Why can't they? I loved Cajon Pass, but from what I read here I wouldn't spend the money on the gas to get up there these days..........and that ain't much. I only live 20 minutes away.

I've never heard it called "Fort Summit" before, but we called it "Stalag 56" on the U.P. No matter what it's called, they sure ruined a great spot to hang out. I used to turn all the lights out on the engine and do some star gazing while stopped waiting my turn to go down the hill. Got some nice sunrise and sunset pictures up there, before the barbed wire and lights- if I can ever find them!-BMT

All points made all well taken and the criminal element that hid out around Martinez is something I had heard about before. Yes both UP and BNSF have had problems with container and trailer break-ins both east and west of Summit in years past (I'll admit to having no knowledge of how things are now). However, the problems Santa Fe and BNSF had up there paled in comparison to the problems SP and UP have had from West Colton to Yuma over the years, and its only been in the last few years that the break-ins have subsided (primarily due to multi-agency sting operations that have apprehended anywhere from 5 to 80 people at a time). And the railroads (and the maritime companies) are smarter at loading containers to minimize the break-in threat; thats why you see more and more of these thieves doing anything they can to break-in BEFORE the containers (and trailers) are loaded at rail terminals.

As for Summit, I'll never believe the reason the "fort" was installed was to minimize cargo theft. Instead it was a knee-jerk reaction to limit liability issues, using the derailment as a reason to justify building the "fort"...it was a crock of bull then and its a crock of bull now. I've seen wb trains lined up all the way past Lugo waiting for their turn down the hill. Did "Fort Summit" prevent any break-in's 3 years ago while trains sat between Lugo and Summit??? Nope. Four trains got "hit" while the Summit morons inspected another train with a open door on an EMPTY container (remember, UP and BNSF haul lots and lots of empty containers back to the west coast). Alot of good the rent-a-cops were that time...

I would rant more but you get my point. Anybody who has spent time in Cajon Pass knows what I'm talking about...

BTW also think the BNSF cops should stop bothering fans in the pass and instead issue citations for the lewd conduct that always seems to be happening around "Vasoline Flats", near Swarthout Canyon Road; they have the power to do so!


AM

BarstowRick Wrote:
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> Fort Summit is the result of many small events
> that eventually became to costly and expensive for
> the Santa Fe and Union Pacific Railroads, to
> ignore.

Cajon has gone from a peaceful, pristine remote area to a fire-blackened, scarred moonscape infested with all sorts of low-life people. Tweekers, squatters, shooters, bikers, paintballers, ATV'ers, vandals and thieves have made this area practically unusable for responsible railfans because of their direct actions and the defensive responses of the Forest Service, railroads and police agencies. I don't blame UP or BNSF one bit for the fences, lights and "security" patrols.

While I'm at it, Cajon is also scourged by powerlines, smog, noise and gawd-awful heavy traffic on I-15 and Rt 138. Screw it.

> Then the train accident afore mentioned. What I
> still don't understand is when the air is pulled,
> dumped or released the train goes into an
> emergency stop. There should have been plenty of
> breaking on that downhill train. Unless, the air
> was bled off completely from the reserve tanks. I
> suspect this is the culprit.

Dude, you have zero for brakes with a blocked trainline four cars back and no two-way air dump EOT device. Do a Google search on the NTSB report.

Bob

I went to Cajon today hoping to shoot pictures of rent-a-cop bozos. I tried for hours but couldn't find even one rent-a-cop. If they're so paranoid about security there, why is it so inconsistant?

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Holy Cow! what's my car doing in that picture!! CRV's kick Cajon's ass!


Robby F. (Mr. MRL) <--ower 2000 CRV-EX 4WD (forest green)

MrMRL Wrote:
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> Holy Cow! what's my car doing in that picture!!
> CRV's kick Cajon's ass!
>
>
> Robby F. (Mr. MRL) <--ower 2000 CRV-EX 4WD
> (forest green)

Sorry, that one's mine!

bnsfbob Wrote:
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> Dude, you have zero for brakes with a blocked
> trainline four cars back and no two-way air dump
> EOT device. Do a Google search on the NTSB
> report.

I happen to have a copy of it:

http://images.spinics.net/rail/RAR9605.pdf

TexBob Wrote:
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> these bozos want to extend their authority onto non BNSF
> property.

Which is something they have zero right to do. Unfortunately many of the people they confront will simply give in to the bozos' demands instead of telling them to go piss off. All too many of these security types think they are real cops and have some kind of real authority; in reality they have no more power than any other citizen.

> Then again, I'm sure that some believe that
> consfiscating tweezers from elderly ladies at the airport is smart policy
> also.

Did you hear about the old lady being arrested for having plastic knitting needles? They were afraid she was going to knit an Afgan!

Sorry, eeek, but I think you must be confused. If by reserve tanks you mean the reservoirs on each car, the emptying of these tanks is what provides for an emergency application of the brakes. With an angle cock closed near the front, there was no way to "dump the air" on the rest of the train, since two-way ETD's were not in use. The train ran away because the trailing tonnage overpowered what little effectiveness the emergency brake application had ahead of the blockage.