Western Railroad Discussion > Parking Trains

Dog-catching dead or dieing trains and departing and parking trains while
waiting for crews is what I do as far away as fifty or sixty miles
around Roseville. I can guarantee all rules, procedures and properly
filled-out forms are done according to FRA and/or company instructions and
rules. Remember kids, these trains are properly secured on company property
and every precaution is taken to prevent run-a-ways or unauthorized
movements. Engines are kept idling to keep the air brake system pumped up
and brakes set. Proper forms are filled out and signed with comments added
to properly inform the on-coming crew of all pertinent information.


Besides properly setting the air brakes, enough handbrakes are set to
prevent movement and procedures are preformed to insure that handbrakes
alone will keep the train from moving. We follow rules for minimum number
of handbrakes per tonnage for every named location according to given
grade. Grade crossing are cut at a minimum of 250 feet to allow sufficient
vision for motorist. If cuts of cars are left without the air brake system
charged then derails are set where available.


Hopefully, the procedures to move parked trains or engines are never
fully explained or even outlined on these forums for obvious reasons.
Unauthorized movements of trains, engines or cars can put every employee as
well as the general public in danger. Trespassing and tampering with any
railroad equipment can be a federal offence.


As most of you know, the term "dead" or "dieing" refers to FRA rules for
maximum allowed time to preform our duties. The 12 hour law which is
referred to as "Hours of Service" or HOS does not relieve train crews from
properly tieing-down their trains and/or being properly relieved. And, HOS
can be and very often is exceeded with proper authority. Rules state that
dispatchers are to be notified at the 8 hour mark and before your 12 hours
are exceeded every effort must be made to clear mainlines, cut grade
crossing and properly secure your train subject to instructions from the
dispatcher or managers. All procedures for properly ending your tour of
duty are covered by FRA and company rules.


Most times when a crew dies on the road the train is lined into a siding or
is relieved by a fresh crew via crew van. UP crews never just stop their
trains at the 12 hour mark, bail off and jump into a taxi............. At
least not twice.....


Al
Roseville's "Roustabout Al"

http://community.webshots.com/user/roustabouter
http://community.webshots.com/user/roustabouter2

Amen to everything you said al.

I can say that BNSF crews dont just jump off at the 12 hour mark either. It is normal practice to plan time ahead to secure your train or stay with it till you are relieved. I have worked with one of the members of the crew that is being scrutinized in San Diego and i can say he is by the book. So i can say that train was tied down, etc., etc. by the BOOK. I laughed at an article i read stating why didnt they just take the train the rest of the way ( which was 8 miles ). I wish they understood that it's not up to us. We are governed by the FRA and they say the train doesnt move after 12 hours. Good thread al....

The knuckleheads that are making an issue of this (media & police) have not the slightest idea how the world of railroading and it's rules work. That stretch of track is governed by the Metrolink San Diego Subdivision Dispatcher. How many times I've heard the DS instruct a BNSF crew to "tie it down and a van will be there to pick you up per your boss" in that very same location is literally countless. I have passed dozens of BNSF dead trains on the #2 track between Tecolote and Morena with no crew present ever since they installed it. This entire matter is being blown waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion by an uninformed local police department and the misinformed and uneducated media. I guess according to their hysteria, the beach trains will need 10 armed guards at Fallbrook from now on. As well as every passenger and freight train laying over in countless sidings and terminals throughout the country. The whole thing is so ludicrous it's a joke. I think these were a few cops who had that "I'll be a hero and save the world" syndrome. I've worked with a few of those and that's one of the reasons why I retired from it. Too many Wyatt Earps out there anymore.

RoustaboutAl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
> And, HOS
> can be and very often is exceeded with proper
> authority. Rules state that
> dispatchers are to be notified at the 8 hour mark
> and before your 12 hours
> are exceeded every effort must be made to clear
> mainlines, cut grade
> crossing and properly secure your train subject to
> instructions from the
> dispatcher or managers. All procedures for
> properly ending your tour of
> duty are covered by FRA and company rules.
<snip>

Thanks for the info Al.
BTW, just *who* has the authority to give a crew permission to exceed their HOS, and under what sort(s) of circumstances? I assume you're not counting the instances where the crew is waiting for a relief crew and hits the 12 hours after they're already stopped. You're talking about crews being given permission to surpass the HOS so that they can make it to the next siding, or something like that?
Don't know if that happens here (in/near Denver). I heard of a crew that had to wait hours at Rocky siding because there were no rested crews, and their HOS ran out right after they got stopped (and before they could tie the train down--which would have allowed them to leave it unattended and get a van ride back to the terminal).
So just what has to happen/be happening for them to authorize a crew to go over on the HOS? Can't just be at/for the convenience of the RR, can it?...
-Wes

On the railroad side permission to exceed the HOS used to be issued over the Superintendent's signature. Now just about any carrier officer can give you verbal authority to continue perfroming service. The deal with the FRA is the crew is supposed to comply with direction from their supervisor. When it is reported to the FRA, they decide if it is a violation and assess any applicable fines to the railroad.

The crew at Rocky in the instance mentioned could have tied down the train after their HOS had expired without being in violation of the law and left in the van. It is allowed as is clearing the mainline after 12 hours is allowed. Pretty bum exceptions and sometimes the railroads take full advantage of the situation. While this allowed for the safety of the public and the railroad is supposed to allow you time to complete the cutting of crossings and securing the trains before the expiration of 12 hrs the dispatchers are more interesting in moving the train one more station as long as you get there before your 12 hrs is up. Since they know the FRA will not fine the company if you have to tie the train down after 12 hrs they are willing to push you to the limit....and beyond.

Some area's like Mountain Grade , you cant tie the train down at all. Like the tehachapi loop. you have to remain on the train " holding the air " until relief is provided. I have been up there for 16 total hours on duty before. 12 of which i could work and 4 in transit and staying on the train.

Not to many crews are willing to go over 12. We kinda live in fear of the violation of that rule. I only wish we could get a bonus or percentage of the fine when we do violate HOS.

SurflinerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The knuckleheads that are making an issue of this
> (media & police) have not the slightest idea
> how the world of railroading and it's rules work.

Did the cops actually enter the cab? If so, will they be brought up on charges?

IIRC, this happened Thursday nite?? So tonite, Sunday at 6 pm, our local Salinas NBC affiliate news program uses this story hooked somehow into the recent terrorist attacks. KSBW is generally pretty reliable and non-sensational, but obviously, they had time to kill and fill up and so they reached for this old story using whatever their sister channel in San Diego ran. Jeez.
C.

The only time I ever know of a crew being ordered to exceed to HOS involved an Amtrak train that was going to go dead in a pretty much inaccessible place in WV on CSXT's Cumberland Sub. The crew was ordered to continue to an accessible location and the order came from the VP level at Amtrak. I later heard the fine involved was $10,000.