Steam & Excursion > UP Steam Question.

Here is UP 2-10-2 No.5065 running extra at Topeka Ks on December 14, 1947.

Note the unusual (to me) valve gear. Any of you steam guys have any information on what kind of valve gear this is?

Yardclerk

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I believe it's Young valve gear.

Looks like the same valve gear as 5511 so its a young. Which 5511 is the last with this type of valve gear.

Yes, that would be a Young valve gear. Unique and distinctive in that it does not have an eccentric on the main driver, but rather takes its motion from the crosshead on the opposite side of the locomotive. Other than that, it's basically the same as a Walschaert gear.

MTMEngineer Wrote:
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> Yes, that would be a Young valve gear. Unique and
> distinctive in that it does not have an eccentric
> on the main driver, but rather takes its motion
> from the crosshead on the opposite side of the
> locomotive. Other than that, it's basically the
> same as a Walschaert gear.


What was the alleged advantage of the Young valve gear vs. Walschaert?

MTMEngineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, that would be a Young valve gear. Unique and
> distinctive in that it does not have an eccentric
> on the main driver, but rather takes its motion
> from the crosshead on the opposite side of the
> locomotive. Other than that, it's basically the
> same as a Walschaert gear.


Some of UP 7000s series, 4-8-2s also had Young valve gear.Also,some early CNW 4-6-2s and 2-8-2s had Young Valve Gear.Saw a picture in a book on CNW Steam Power of a 4-4-2 Atlantic with Young Rotary Vavles.Picture was taken in 1912!

john1082 Wrote:
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>
> What was the alleged advantage of the Young valve
> gear vs. Walschaert?


It put less dynamic load on the main driver.

It was said to give long valve travel and good valve events.

It probably made money, though not much since its popularity was shortlived, for a Mr. Young.

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There is another lesser known Young valve gear, which was an adaptation of Corliss horizontal rotary valves.

> It probably made money, though not much since its popularity was shortlived, for a Mr. Young.

Much to the disappointment of Mr. Young and his family.

I can run my computer, and argue a case. I have been charged with shooting missiles to Russia and hitting within yards of the target - but understanding valve gear just makes my head hurt!

It wasn't old?

Gonut

Gonut1 Wrote:
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> It wasn't old?
>
> Gonut

IIRC, it was first used in 1923, and fell out of favor in '25 or '29.

In the photograph, note the two reach rods at the far back of the valve gear assembly, forming a sort of triangle.

The lower reach rod raised or lowered the radius rod on the right side of the engine, to take motion from the rod connected to the righthand crosshead, which motion then was transferred to the lefthand piston valve.

The upper reach rod lowered or raised the radius rod on the left side of the engine, to take motion from the rod connected to the lefthand crosshead, which motion was then transferred to the righthand piston valve.

So, when the right radius rod was in the lower half of the link, the left radius rod was in the upper half of its link, and vice versa.

Also, in the picture, note the highest horizontal rod, above the radius rod. This, believe it or not, serves the same purpose as the combination lever in a Walschaert gear, to provide lead.

An interesting mechanism, to say the least. But, probably unnecessarily complicated to do the same thing as a Walschaert - which probably led to its quick demise.

john1082 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > It probably made money, though not much since
> its popularity was shortlived, for a Mr. Young.
>
> Much to the disappointment of Mr. Young and his
> family.
>
> I can run my computer, and argue a case. I have
> been charged with shooting missiles to Russia and
> hitting within yards of the target - but
> understanding valve gear just makes my head hurt!


Follow up on my previous post about Young Rotory Valves Quoted from the book
"CNW Steam Power 1848-1956 Classes A-Z" by C.T.Knudsen.

"O.W.Young, an employee of the C&NW, working in the shops at Chicago, Illinois, applied for and was granted a patent on an improved design valve, February 3,1904. This type valve was installed on No. 1026, Class D 4-4-2, and, as result in improved efficiency of the locomotive. 10 Class D locomotives were purchesed from Schenectady in 1908, all equipped with YOung Valves. These engines all had the Walschaert Valve motion. However,all were changed to piston valves in the 1920s".

PWB, very interesting information. I hadn't known Young was an employee of CNW. I wish it was easy to search the government's patent site. So his 1904 patent was for a new valve design.

I don't know when Mr. Young patented his gear, but I do know that the first application was to a Pacific on the Grand Trunk in December 1915.

By the time Union Pacific ordered the first of their 4-8-2's for 1922 delivery the Young gear was being marketed by Pyle-National, a company most think was involved strictly in electric appliances. I remember my surprise when I first learned this. I don't know if this was P-N's only venture into the marketing of locomotive appliances outside their huge array of electrical products, but I do believe it represented a major departure for P-N and I think speaks volumes about the promise held in the Young design, otherwise I don't believe P-N would have "taken the chance" on this product.

All of UP's 4-8-2's were built with Young gear, which did posess a number of advantages and in tests clearly demonstrated more power on an otherwise identically equipped Waschaert geared engine. Comments by railroad test forces were along the lines of "The Young engine has proven itself in efficiency, in so far as it could life a much heavier train, without having to take the slack, which the Walschaert engine almost always had to do; and it has proven itself in power, also capacity for making very high speed....." The same guy also mentioned that "...the ease with which this engine rides, the absence of that lateral vibration, nosing, usually found in most engines." Of course, many other tests were also conducted.

I hope to do a little writing about Union Pacific's replacement of the Young gear on all of their 4-8-2's but am still researching some of the background behind the decision to do so, and unfortunately this may take some time.

John

What A Photograph! Of a very Historic and Classic UP Locomotive.* I was barely 1 year old, at the time.* Thank You. And Merry Christmas!...VERNON From Missouri

>understanding valve gear just makes my head hurt!

You might find Charles Dockstader's valvegear simulator programs of interest. Simple line animation with adjustable controls for all the well known valve gears including rotary; different versions for inside and outside admission where applicable. Download here:

http://www.tcsn.net/charlied/