Steam & Excursion > Did 4501's green paint scheme change?

In another thread about 4501, I recently questioned whether or not 4501 had changed shades of green after leaving the steam program, (obviously before being painted back in her historical black). She looks much darker in old photos, and as I remember her she was much darker. filmteknik responded:

"Are you sure the color changed and it was not just
a matter of the photography? The smokebox did
change to much darker graphite from the silver
aluminum paint."

I'm starting a new thread to find out if anyone knows for sure. Did the color change, or was it old photography and a faulty memory? Someone knows the truth... but who?

Hey steam, we may have to go there and do some paint chip analysis!

If memory serves, the later green, applied by NS, was Imron and must have been clear coated because it looked like a plastic toy. It did look brighter than the old color.

steam290 Wrote:
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> I'm starting a new thread to find out if anyone
> knows for sure. Did the color change, or was it
> old photography and a faulty memory? Someone
> knows the truth... but who?


4501 was painted green in 1966 (in Chattanooga). Maybe in 1968 (after a year's work in Stearns, and with a new tender). Probably in 1972, after a year's work in Irondale. At least once more during the 70s. Definitely in 1984 (Irondale - I think Imron is correct), and in 1991 (Chattanooga - I think Centari, but don't quote me).

I think it's safe to assume that the green varied at least a little between 1926 and 1966 and 1991, if only because the paint used, and the chemicals used to make the paint, changed over the years. (Not to mention the differences between 1926 and 1966.) The 1984 paint job looked "right." The 1991 paint job sometimes seemed "too yellow," but my very subjective impression is that the difference is as much due to the difference between Dulux, Imron and Centari as anything else.

That said, I have an enameled Southern station sign that is much darker than the green 4501, 722, and 1401 wore post-1953, and I believe there was at least a little difference between the green applied to the steam locomotives and the green of the Diesels.

So, put me down for "probably, a little, but not drastically."

JAC

These were taken in 1985. They are the same paint but 1 is on
a foggy morning, 2 is in the morning sun and 3 is in the shade.
For what they are worth.

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Ardenwood Wrote:
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> These were taken in 1985. They are the same paint
> but 1 is on
> a foggy morning, 2 is in the morning sun and 3 is
> in the shade.
> For what they are worth.


Beautiful photographs. The color still looks different than many postcards they sell in the TVRM gift shop. If I had one of these postcards, I'd post it, but I never purchased one because the locomotive looks too "neon" in them. It could all be lighting. I'm a visual artist, I paint trains, so I'm pretty good at noticing whether a color is different or just under different light. On the other hand, I could still be fooled.

Oh come on, postcards never count. Color on them is often bizarre.

Granted, but still...

John,
Your recollection as to the Centari paint is correct. After painting, the subsequent washing yellowed the green somewhat due to the mixing of diesel fuel and/or kerosene with the detergents. The Centari did not hold up very well under those conditions. I can specifically remember how yellow-green spots could be seen in places on the jacket along the top of the boiler.

For the rest of you, I can attest that the drift control cards from the Southern Railway are well preserved and are the references used on all Southern green applications at TVRM and in previous applications to the Famous. Different formulations of paint lead to different hues - Southern green was mixed and applied to a certain RS3 that I oversaw the painting of and I can attest that it had a somewhat more blue appearance, though it was matched to the drift card. I am convinced that there was not a hard and fast rule for what was Southern green (or L&N Blue or N&W Red) in days past as there is with today's precision formulations that yield very consistent results within paint families. But again, when using a new formulation with different pigmentation, some variation is not only possible, but likely.

Best,
Mike