Steam & Excursion > Two SP 4-40s and a 0-8-0

I selected the following shots this morning from a batch I purchased earlier this year.

Photo #1 - SP1358 - Date, location and photographer unknown.

4-4-0 SP1358 was built by Baldwin in March 1883 as Oregon & California Railroad #25. Part of the E-11 Class, in 1891 it was renumbered as SP1358 and kept the same number in the 1901 General Renumbering. It had 63 inch drivers, 17X24” cylinders, weighted 74,700 lbs. (48,000 lbs. on drivers) and operated with 140 pounds boiler pressure. It provided 13,100 lbs. of calculated tractive effort. SP removed it from their roster in 4/30/1925 and it was officially scrapped 9/26/1925 at Brooklyn.


Photo #2 - SP1409 – 0-8-0 photographed at Roseville my M.J. Hayes (date unknown)

0-8-0 SP1409 was part of a group of SE-4 Class switchers built at Sacramento Shops using boilers from A-3 Class 4-4-2 engines. Using the boiler from A-3 SP3064, SP1409 was built as 2nd SP1314 in April 1937 (the last new SP steam switcher built), it was placed in service on 4/26/1937.

On 3/9/1938 it was renumbered at Los Angeles to SP1409. On 7/4/1948 it was again renumbered, this time to SP4508. It was vacated from the roster on 5/2/1957 and sold for scrap to Commercial Metals of Pittsburg, CA on 6/28/1957.


Photo #3 - SP1540 – Bayshore on 1/25/1936. Photographer unknown.

A member of the E-27 Class of 4-4-0s, SP1540 was meeting the end of its life at the scrap track. Built by Baldwin on April 1911 it was placed in service on 6/9/1911. Built with 73” drivers and 20X26” cylinders, the engine weight 146,000 lbs, (100,000 lbs on drivers), it operated with 200 lbs boiler pressure and developed 24,220 lbs. tractive effort.

They came new with Pyle National electric generators and Gollmar bell ringers. SP added a superheater at Bayshore on 2/23/1923. It was vacated from the roster on 1/1/1934 and scrapped at Bayshore on 2/5/1936. When thinking of so many SP steam locomotives having careers of forty or fifty years, the E-27 class must not have been that popular. All fifteen E-27s (SP1526-1540) were built in March and April 1911, and all were set aside on 1/1/1934; a lifespan of less than 23 years.

---

---

---

I'll bet that 1540 was a fast little engine. I wonder what its normal assignments were when first put in service.

Stan

The SP 1540 in service.No info on origin of this shot except probably in the Bay area . The 4508 in Tracy August 1956, probably its last assignment.

---

---

The 0-8-0 is our suggestion to Glacier Park for their next model, that and
the TW-8.

That 1358 is a sweet little American. Thanks for posting. I like the old stuff. :)

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

I'd bet that one hoghead that operated the 4508 in Tracy was Tom Weston.

Tony J.

TonyJ Wrote:

> All fifteen E-27s (SP1526-1540) were
> built in March and April 1911, and all were set
> aside on 1/1/1934; a lifespan of less than 23
> years.

What prompted SP to buy 4-4-0's so late? For what service were they intended, that they didn't measure up?

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TonyJ Wrote:
>
> > All fifteen E-27s (SP1526-1540) were
> > built in March and April 1911, and all were set
> > aside on 1/1/1934; a lifespan of less than 23
> > years.
>
> What prompted SP to buy 4-4-0's so late? For what
> service were they intended, that they didn't
> measure up?


Good question. Until I read the stats I would have assumed Espee stopped buying 4-4-0s ten years earlier. Their first 4-6-2s arrived a litle over six years before these 4-4-0s came on the property. I would guess they were intended for use on branchline passenger trains were train weight and length were small, but the removal of so many of these trains on account of the Great Depression gave the 4-4-0s little business they could perform elsewhere on the railroad. - Tony J.

TonyJ Wrote:

> I would guess they were intended for use
> on branchline passenger trains were train weight
> and length were small, but the removal of so many
> of these trains on account of the Great Depression
> gave the 4-4-0s little business they could perform
> elsewhere on the railroad.

Hmmm...so with 73" drivers, was the idea to have a light locomotive wouldn't chew up branchline track, with more weight on the drivers than an Atlantic, but an engine that could still get-up-and-go when it hit the mainline junction?

Evan_Werkema Wrote:

>
> Hmmm...so with 73" drivers, was the idea to have a
> light locomotive wouldn't chew up branchline
> track, with more weight on the drivers than an
> Atlantic, but an engine that could still
> get-up-and-go when it hit the mainline junction?

... kind of like a GP9 on the Del Monte Limited?

I'd sure be interested to know exactly where those late model Americans were assigned. Maybe secondary mains in the Central Valley - like through Porterville, for instance? Or Stockton-Merced via Oakdale?

Stan Praisewater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/11 11:32 by sagehen.

Stan, they were used Stockton to Merced on the Montpelier line up until 1940
when the line was pulled. The Anderson and Bella Vista had one or two off
the SP and borrowed another from time to time and hauled lumber.

> What prompted SP to buy 4-4-0's so late? For what
> service were they intended, that they didn't
> measure up?

The late Guy Dunscomb in his book "A Century of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives" states the E-27s were built principally for the San Francisco - San Jose Peninsula commute service. The photo of 1540 appears to be departing San Francisco's 3rd and Townsend St. Station past the 4th St. Tower. In those days, train #86 (as shown in the indicator boards) was a commute train to San Jose.

I suspect the E-27 class's relatively short service life was due to several factors. Rapidly increasing commuter loads and larger steel coaches resulted in longer, heavier commute trains by the 1920s. Meanwhile, acquisition of heavy Pacific, Mountain and General Service (Northern) type passenger locomotives in the 1920s and early 30s meant older passenger power, such as the early Pacifics and the relatively modern ten-wheelers could now be "cascaded" down to the commute pool. These locomotives had considerably more pulling power than the E-27s. Once the E-27s were dislodged from the commute service there was really nowhere for them to go, since most branch line passenger service was abandoned by then, and they certainly weren't suited for main line duties. Had the SP motive power department had a crystal ball in 1911, they certainly would not have purchased this class.

An interesting footnote to this discussion is the brief assignment of the former El Paso & Southwestern PR-1 and PR-2 class 2-6-2 Prairie types to the Peninsula commute service in the late 1920s. But that's another story...

Regards,
RL Cabin

RL,
I had forgoten what Guy Dunscomb had written in his book. I should have looked it up myself. Thank You.

The E-27s were fine looking 4-4-0s. It's too bad their service life was doomed on account of all the things mentioned in earlier posts.

Tony J.

TonyJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RL,
> I had forgoten what Guy Dunscomb had written in
> his book. I should have looked it up myself. Thank
> You.
>
> The E-27s were fine looking 4-4-0s. It's too bad
> their service life was doomed on account of all
> the things mentioned in earlier posts.
>
Now I'd love to see photos of the former EP&SW 2-6-2s. I only have out of service shots.
> Tony J.