Steam & Excursion > Will we ever see UP steam in Los Angeles?

I've been wondering about this. I assume that due to the traffic volume here it won't happen. Also, I saw in the other thread that 844 hasn't been here since 1989. Has there been any talk of 3985 or 844 visiting here?
Just wondering.

-K

Would be nice but state of California politics probably big wet blanket.
Could operate a business special from here to Texas for all those businesses leaving California.
My last place of employment just moved a big chunk of employees to San Antonio. Then you have the head of In-N-Out burger on TV saying why they are leaving CA for TX. Sacramento doesn't get it.

Would sure be nice -- Last time I remember was eleven years ago, when the UP sent the Challenger here for the Democratic National Covention at the Staples Center. I made the mistake of bringing a very young child with me, which precluded doing much of a chase, sadly. Had I known that would be it, I might have gone solo.

Is it really politics? I can't imagine that's true - a smart corporate entity works with both political parties - this has always been true. And frankly, as noted, last time it was out here, it was for the party that is presently in power in California. I'm guessing it has more to do with the distance from their home base and the supply line issues that causes.

The issue is the air quality variance required. LA wants more money than it is generally worth. They view UP as an industrial business (which it is) and charges them the highest rate for the variance. Non-profit groups have it a little easier. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but is a hurdle to overcome.

I know one possible reason why UP steam trips to L.A. were virtually non-existent for awhile. How much this plays a role nowadays though, I don't know. I suspect now it has more to do with traffic density and having to deal with a host RR (BNSF) than anything. But here is what happened in 1994.

UP ran a steam excursion from Ontario to Barstow and back in 1994 called the Pacific Limited. The trip was full of problems, especially the Saturday journey, and it really left a sour taste in Steve Lee's mouth, enough that I heard he swore off any more trips to Southern California if he could help it (at least for the time being).

From what I can recall, on the morning of the Saturday trip some a-hole railfan apparently called the Santa Fe SB Sub dispatcher posing as a UP muckety-muck and told them we weren't coming. Presumably this was to slow down our progress to make the chase easier. Not knowing any of this, we left Ontario pretty much on schedule, heading for West Riverside. When we showed up at Arlington, then Streeter, and starting getting flashing yellows then yellows, we called the ATSF dispatcher to find out what the hell was going on. Well, they said they were told we were going to be a no-show so getting us on and over the RR that day was a huge burden for them. I heard Steve Lee was pissed to no end after that trip and the Sunday trip almost didn't happen because of it. Fortunately the Sunday journey did happen and ran much smoother. But apparently Steve was still not amused.

Steve is retired now and I'm sure this is all ancient history. But I've always wondered if the lack of UP steam visits over the years since then could be traced back to this ugly incident. Of course, knowing this State, and the Kalifornia Air Resources Board, it's probably more to do with avoiding "gross polluter" citations or some other sort of bureaucratic stupidity.

I have heard some other stories of idiotic behavior by railfans that soured the UP steam crew on ever visiting Cali again.

nycman Wrote:
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I have heard some other stories of idiotic
behavior by railfans that soured the UP steam crew
on ever visiting Cali again.

Such as the theft of all the EMD "football" builder plates from the executive E units, upon their first trip to California! Those E units went to all sorts of places on the UP system, but ONE TRIP to California,,,,,,,,,poof, stainless steel plates gone. Now they are just stick on "stickers".

Man - I so hate to hear the idiot railfan stories - really breaks my heart. I look at pictures I've taken of trips out here of special events and there are guys standing in the gauge and guys climbing on railroad property, so I have to assume all the rest is true too. You wonder, isn't there a level of intelligence to say, "if I do this, I'll ruin for the other guys and for myself again..."

I worry for society.

trainjunkie Wrote:
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>> Steve is retired now and I'm sure this is all
> ancient history.

Not that ancient. JEB

WyoRail Wrote:
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> The issue is the air quality variance required. LA
> wants more money than it is generally worth. They
> view UP as an industrial business (which it is)
> and charges them the highest rate for the
> variance. Non-profit groups have it a little
> easier. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but is a
> hurdle to overcome.

The air quality issue doesn't hold when one considers that up to 2003 2472 was running up and down the Peninsula every now and then. Or am I supposed to believe that are the San Francisco air quality people less stringent than the Los Angeles air quality people? Moreover 2472, along with other steam locomotives, continue to run in Niles Canyon, but maybe that area is outside of the geographic jurisdiction of the air quality board.

Of greater relevance is 3751 which does ran this year in Los Angeles and several times in Southern California during recent years. So why would 3751 be able to run from and to Los Angeles, but not 844 or 3985?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/11 17:57 by RuleG.

They was an incendent when some one shunted to rails in the Highland area of the route. For years Steve thought it was Railfans who did it. When I saw him im Laramie on the YP to Yoder, Not! Trip I told him I had learned that it had been gang bangers out there who did it as the wanted to prove to their members that they could stop a steam train. Pretty
lame actions on their parts I think you would all agree.

Chris

for a feather river trip after the steam was sidelined someone stcked tie plates and punctured a fuel tank on a GE

Y'all got the 3751, why be concerned about seeing 844? Maybe we could trade? naw, probably not. Still and all though I'd sure like to see 3751 tour Texas. Now if I had the money to accomodate my ideas maybe then it could happen. As it is though all I can do is "ifn & wishin". Someone else would have to fund it. Maybe one of you wealthy Californians that want to see 844 in your neck of the woods could spend some of your big bucks and UP would accomodate you?

Con

RuleG Wrote:
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> Or am I
> supposed to believe that are the San Francisco air
> quality people less stringent than the Los Angeles
> air quality people?

It would probably be worth your time to believe that, because it happens to be true.
Keep in mind that SQAMD regulates a number of things that clearly contribute billions of tons of gross polution to the atmosphere. For instance, weed whackers, air blowers, and speed boats.

lwilton Wrote:
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> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or am I
> > supposed to believe that are the San Francisco
> air
> > quality people less stringent than the Los
> Angeles
> > air quality people?
>
> It would probably be worth your time to believe
> that, because it happens to be true.
> Keep in mind that SQAMD regulates a number of
> things that clearly contribute billions of tons of
> gross polution to the atmosphere. For instance,
> weed whackers, air blowers, and speed boats.

There are steam locomotives operating daily in Southern California at Knotts and Disney.

Yes, the Union Pacific had to apply for variances in 2000 to comply with the Los Angeles Basin and the High Plains Air quality boards in order to attend the DNC that year. The High Plains variance was considerably less than the other. But we did make it into town and entertain great throngs of people and delegates.
Bob Krieger
UP/CRIP retired
Cheyenne

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Interesting. I tried to vote UP to have their excursion here with the recent contest, but obviously LA didn't make the cut. Maybe one day I can make it out to see 844 or 3985 or both some day.

-K

kurt765 Wrote:
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> Interesting. I tried to vote UP to have their
> excursion here with the recent contest, but
> obviously LA didn't make the cut. Maybe one day I
> can make it out to see 844 or 3985 or both some
> day.
>
> -K

That reminds me. I voted to send 844 through Santa Barbara. If running to Los Angeles was truly out of the question for UP, I'm sure Santa Barbara and other Southern California communities could not have been submitted for the contest.

I am still awaiting an explanation as to why air quality would be an issue for UP steam, but it did not prevent 3751 from running in Southern California.