Steam & Excursion > Steam scrapping protocol

Was there a standard "protocol" for scrapping a steamer? Besides perhaps detaching the tender for reuse was there a recipe for cutting one up? Detach the rods? Remove appliances? Auction off bell, builder's plate & headlight?

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

John, I don't think the scrappers had a protocol, so to speak. I think they probably removed all the non-ferrous stuff (bells, whistles, gauges and other brass and copper etc.)first, climbed on top of them and worked their way down to the ground with the torch! At least that's the way I remember seeing it done.

I think another way to ask the question is what is the protocol the railroads had prior to delivery to the scrapper? Did they removed the rods, name plates or anything? I would imagine this varied greatly and there wasn't any specific protocol, but I could be wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/13 20:21 by PhillipJohnson.

Just like scrapping anything else. Start with the small stuff and work toward the core.

PhillipJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think another way to ask the question is what is
> the protocol the railroads had prior to delivery
> to the scrapper? Did they removed the rods, name
> plates or anything? I would imagine this varied
> greatly and there wasn't any specific protocol,
> but I could be wrong.

I know the UP in Portland scrapped a lot of their engines themselves. They also sold quite a few to Schnitzer Steel and Oregon Steel Mills for scrap. I remember seeing the boilermakers, pipefitters and welders at Albina crawling all over them, cutting them up in the mid 50's. It seems to me they did it for a couple of years or so. God, that was sad to see. Especially when they were cutting up the Challengers, other articulateds, 2-10-2's, and Mountains, etc!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/13 21:12 by patd3985.

Back in the early 1960s, Ron Zeil wrote a book, The Twilight of Steam Locomotives. One chapter was devoted to the scrapping of a CB&Q 2-10-4 (?), with step-by-step photographs.

Carl Shaver
Lombard, IL

IIRC if it is to be shipped the first thing is to cut the piston rods so there is no pumping as the wheels turn when it is moved to the scrap yard, then the air brakes are carefully set up for it to be moved Dead In Train (DIT). They are usually placed into trains in consideration of their weight, not wanting to concentrate too much at one point. I remember seeing two, but never more, SP steamers going to scrap in trains eastbound (geographic south) through Glendale. (An exciting day was to see a cab-forward, never bothered to log any of their numbers or try for a snapshot.)
The sale was conducted as a straightforward business transaction, usually a bid process then execute the (deal, or the engine) quickly to get it off the books and enter the revenue into cash. Not that much different from selling scrap rail or other commodities; it is a business.

There is a good book out there, out of print of course that shows steam locos being scrapped. The name escapes me, I don't think it's Ziel's book, I do recall a color picture of a Mil. Hiawatha in the book about to be scrapped.

I read somewhere that at one PRR scrap yard, they would remove the number and builder plates, bells, whistles and etc and put them in the office, if someone wanted them as souvenirs they could just stop by and ask, whether or not there is much truth to this is a question? The stuff had no value back then other than scrap weight.

>IIRC if it is to be shipped the first thing is to cut the piston rods so there is no pumping as the wheels turn when it is moved to the scrap yard,

But not the main and side rods because doing this results in sever speed restrictions because things get out of balance.

Looks like in the UK they started with the boiler, I have seen it done different ways.

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Thanks gang

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

The saving of the jewelry (bells, whistles, builders plates, etc) depended on the railroad. I know the Norfolk and Western took great pride in their steam locomotives and the scrapping of them was heart breaking. From what I have read the builders plates and bells were saved and given to engineers as gifts who were retiring. The Presidents, CEO's, and managers frequently had first pick, followed by the the retirees, and then anyone else who wanted them. Mechanics often removed the items, so they probably had the largest collections.

Some steam locomotives like the Big boys had builders plates that everyone wanted. So it is no surprise that builders plates, along with the front number shields were stolen or removed while they were sitting in storage on the dead tracks years before they were scrapped. I am sure through the life of the Big boys the front number shield was probably stolen and replaced many times before the scrapping started.

Some people have mentioned the book the Twilight of steam locomotives. I met Ron zeil once and asked him about the scrapping of those steam locomotives. He said one of the scrappers was about ready to cut through a piston rod, and asked Ron if he would like to do the cut. He said "it's too heartbreaking for me". The scrapper said "I feel the same way". He also said that the Union pacific wanted all the Big boys cut up inside the shops. The Union pacific felt the Big boys should die a honorable death with little witnesses. They even banned photographing the scrapping process. But Ron told me "I managed to sneak into the shops and get one roll off". Some of those photos are in his book. I have seen a Big boy cutting cut up out of the shops but it was almost hard to recognize.

You will find that the steam locomotives that did end up in scrapyards (as opposed to some railroads like the N&W and UP who scrapped many of their own steam locomotives on their property) really didn't give a hoot about the builders plates and bells. Since these scrappers were cutting up hundreds of locomotives every year, the saving of so much metal could be overwhelming. Bells were especially hard to manhandle and save since they often weighed several hundred pounds. In the book "The twilight of steam locomotives". You will see headlights laying on the ground and all sorts of other collectibles.

When I worked for Penn Dixie Steel in Kokomo, Indiana (which had been Continental Steel in the old days) one old timer recalled scrapping steam locos.

He said they came in and were piled like firewood! Some from the NKP, some from the NYC and who knows what else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/13 20:28 by wabash2800.