Steam & Excursion > 3751 strange "accesories" on pilot beam

First off, thanks to all for the photos/videos of 3751 last weekend. I was out of town and couldn't be trackside.

Does anyone know what the four yellow items are on the pilot beam? They look like they are on top of the coupler cut lever? I've never seen them before.

Thanks in advance
Have fun, be safe,
Bruce "Doc" Jones Sierra Madre CA

They were wheel chocks. It was just an unfortunate choice of storage location.

imrl Wrote:
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> They were wheel chocks. It was just an unfortunate
> choice of storage location.

From a photographic standpoint, yes the location is
unfortunate.

From an operational standpoint, they are in a location
that will stand out to crew members, who will be responsible
for their use!! Not stored away, out of sight, out of mind!

Mike

2720 Wrote:
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> From an operational standpoint, they are in a
> location
> that will stand out to crew members, who will be
> responsible
> for their use!! Not stored away, out of sight, out
> of mind!
>
> Mike

Just my opinion but, I find you statement totally laughable! You mean, that if the grease gun to dope the rod bearings is "stored away, out of sight, out of mind!" that somebody on the Engine Crew might FORGET to dope the rods????? I also assume that the Valve oil cans and Machine oil cans, do NOT ride on the pilot, but are also "stored out sight, out of mind!"????

If the 3751 Crew doesn't take anymore pride in their beautiful locomotive than THAT, then I am VERY surprised and disappointed. Why not just admit that, some poor newbie inadvertently TEMPORALLY place those wheel chocks on the pilot beam,,,,,,and forgot to store them where they belonged?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 14:22 by HotWater.

Hotwater,

You are very patient!
We responded to this when it first came up. [A week ago?]
Thanks for your careful response.

That also is an extremely poor location for unsecured steel wedge-shaped objects.
Suppose they had vibrated free and wedged in a switch frog, crossing, guard rails, etc!

Would NOT be a good outcome.
Please, everybody, if you see this occurring before departure CALL ATTENTION TO THE DANGERS!
That loco was probably well photographed for hours before departure that morning.

That picture scares the life out of me!


Wes C.

Hotwater, with respect to Pride.....
You must distinguish between the 3751 Locomotive Crew and the outside operating crew.
The 3751 Locomotive Crew, who restored and maintained her, do have pride and know darn well where the skates go, and which is in either of the belly boxes!.
The outside operating crew does not know or care how things have been customarily done and have their own way. Obviously they either put the skates there themselves or ordered them put there
Let's hope she doesn't get damaged someday because of disconnects such as this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 19:57 by BarSlant.

BarSlant Wrote:
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> You must distinguish between the 3751 Locomotive
> Crew and the outside operating crew.
> The 3751 Locomotive Crew, who restored and
> maintained her, do have pride and know darn well
> where the skates go, and which is in either of the
> belly boxes!.
> The outsider operating crew does not know or care
> how things are customarily done and have their own
> way. Obviously they either put the skates there or
> overrode the SBRHS's practice.
> Let's hope she doesn't get damaged someday because
> of disconnects such as this.

Now THAT is an excellent point! I'm sure that Bill Stettler wouldn't do anything like that, but the other guy, from the UP,,,,,,,,,who knows. The 3751 isn't "his engine", so what the heck.

Well technically the Locomotive doesn't belong to either of them, or the crew. It belongs to the public.

However I understand your comment. I think the proper way to put this is that neither of the two outside crew are invested in the Locomotive, as will be painfully seen when she goes down for her 15/1472.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 20:53 by BarSlant.

Who is the outside operating crew? Do you mean the pilots? Surely no one but 3751 people run that engine.

filmteknik Wrote:
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> Who is the outside operating crew? Do you mean
> the pilots? Surely no one but 3751 people run
> that engine.

No, not the pilots. Unlike the SP4449 group, the NKP 765 group, and the Mil 261 group, the 3751 group does NOT have any FRA ticketed Engineers. Thus, Bill Stettler, of Amtrak, is brought in as Engineer, plus for this most recent outing, Ed Dickens (from the UP) was Fireman. Which sort of begs the question, how do any of the 3751 crew members gain experience on firing her, if someone "from the outside" now does the firing?

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> filmteknik Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who is the outside operating crew? Do you mean
> > the pilots? Surely no one but 3751 people run
> > that engine.
>
> No, not the pilots. Unlike the SP4449 group, the
> NKP 765 group, and the Mil 261 group, the 3751
> group does NOT have any FRA ticketed Engineers.
> Thus, Bill Stettler, of Amtrak, is brought in as
> Engineer, plus for this most recent outing, Ed
> Dickens (from the UP) was Fireman. Which sort of
> begs the question, how do any of the 3751 crew
> members gain experience on firing her, if someone
> "from the outside" now does the firing?

What did you expect from those two? 3751 people probably now have to have special dispensation just to climb into the cab, much less touch anything or learn anything.

A very good friend of mine, who is a member of the 3751 group, is a fully-certified UP engineer, and has run the 3751 on numerous occaisions. I will not start yet another flame war by going into the circumstances whereby Amtrak will allow only its own people (Stettler, et al) to operate and fire the engine.

Brian Black
Retired SP/UP Conductor

tehachcond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A very good friend of mine, who is a member of the
> 3751 group, is a fully-certified UP engineer, and
> has run the 3751 on numerous occaisions. I will
> not start yet another flame war by going into the
> circumstances whereby Amtrak will allow only its
> own people (Stettler, et al) to operate and fire
> the engine.
>
> Brian Black
> Retired SP/UP Conductor

And there-in lies the problem,,,,,,Amtrak and their "power over the Commuter Agency"!

tehachcond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A very good friend of mine, who is a member of the
> 3751 group, is a fully-certified UP engineer, and
> has run the 3751 on numerous occaisions. I will
> not start yet another flame war by going into the
> circumstances whereby Amtrak will allow only its
> own people (Stettler, et al) to operate and fire
> the engine.
>
> Brian Black
> Retired SP/UP Conductor

Brian, that is NOT an Amtrak person firing it. Unless he's moonlighting from his UP job.

The qualification criteria by which FRA engineers with road steam experience are allowed to run under Amtrak is undocumented and entirely subjective to say the least.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/14 08:05 by BarSlant.

BarSlant Wrote:
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> SBRHS has three FRA engineers all of who have run
> steam, two of which have run the 3751 on the road,
> one of whom has run her round trip to SB in 2004.

Absolutely TRUE! However, as long as "Amtrak Stettler" is involved/in-charge, nobody, but NOBODY will be at the throttle of 3751 except him or is buddy Ed Dickens!

BarSlant Wrote:
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> Hotwater,


Is it too much to ask
> for a fireman to have some notice, rest, a track
> profile, and a check ride and thus some chance for
> success?


For what it's worth, I have NEVER had ANY "advanced notice" nor a track profile during my 50+ years of firing! Related to 4449, 844 and 3985, the Fireman MUST know his locomotive, and react accordingly. I have been over much of the Southern Pacific railroad and much of the Union Pacific railroad and the pilot crews ALWAYS pay attention and help the Engineer, while the Fireman tends to operate clueless. Been there and done that, but it is part of the job!
>
> Furthermore, several Santa Fe Steam men were
> allowed to go to their graves unused when they
> could and would have been willing to be used as
> resources for training and mentoring SBRHS
> engineers and firemen. SBRHS could have had a
> qualified roster with direct lineage to AT&SF.

Just my opinion, but I would tend to NOT rely on most of the "old timers" as most were Fireman during the last days of steam, and they have tended to forget more than they actually remember (been there and done THAT also). Plus they have no experience in firing an excursion movement.

Notice how the UP steam program and 3751 seem to be going to the dogs. Maybe pizza pie plates, bunting, ribbons, and silver paint are in 3751's future.

coastdaylight Wrote:
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> Notice how the UP steam program and 3751 seem to
> be going to the dogs. Maybe pizza pie plates,
> bunting, ribbons, and silver paint are in 3751's
> future.

Well, she already has those bright yellow wheel chocks on the pilot beam.

I don't know that I'd say the programs have "..gone to the dogs."

I would, however say that both programs have succumed to a style over substance plan. e.g. it's far more important to some people how shiny and blingy the locomotive is than how it's maintained and operated.