Steam & Excursion > Amtrak Certified

Question, what are the requirements that Amtrak looks for to Amtrak certify a Steam Locomotive??? TIA!!!

Santa Fe

Posted from iPhone

First of all, is there really such an official designation as there is for PVs?

filmteknik Wrote:
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> First of all, is there really such an official
> designation as there is for PVs?


Yes, there certainly is. An Amtrak Contract Inspector has been out to inspect SP4449 at least twice, over the years (first time was obviously prior to the long trip to Owosso, Mich. in 2009). The same man came back to inspect the SP&S 700, prior to its planned trip some years back.

I think I remember reading that they need so many miles ran since the last rebuild also.

I'm going to guess here, but things like cab controls, tires need to be certain thickness, brake system needs to be updated or approved, failover and redundant controls/valves, bearing upgrades and replacement where possible and so on. Point in case, 765 is Amtrak Certified, 1225 is not. SRI is considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars need to bring the engine up to spec (along with tool car) in order to travel outside the Great Lakes Central infrastructure to visit other museums. They would be the ones to really say what is needed.

unseenthings Wrote:
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> I'm going to guess here, but things like cab
> controls, tires need to be certain thickness,
> brake system needs to be updated or approved,
> failover and redundant controls/valves, bearing
> upgrades and replacement where possible and so on.

You really shouldn't guess. SP4449 for example, has not had any "cab controls" up-graded nor up-dated. Concerning Amtrak inspections of the locomotive and tender, the Inspector simply follows FRA requirements, which have been in effect since the steam days.

Bottom line; if you desire to operate excursions under the Amtrak insurance umbrella, then your locomotive and all its support equipment MUST be inspected and approved by an Amtrak Inspector. One of the main reasons that Doyle McCormack sold his support crew car, "Yes Dear", as it would have cost tens of thousands of dollars to have the HEP cabling run through the car plus have the trucks disassembled and inspected/rebuilt to Amtrak specifications.

So you have an engine....

Amtrak does not certify steam locomotives as it does PV's (That's a Private Car for those who don't want to look it up). The locomotive is approved for a trip or a series of specific trips over a season, it does not get the same annual rights as a PV to access any Amtrak train. (I think we did once discuss putting 800261 on her tender though).. Amtrak can re-inspect the locomotive for approval before each trip if they see fit.

Dan Pluta STILL does a great job performing most if not all of those inspections. The locomotive inspection builds on the already performed FRA inspection. The focus is on running gear, draft gear, suspension, brakes and the competence of the crew. If there are an excess of wizzing staybolts or repairs have been done after the annual, the inspector may look at that too.

Amtrak wants to know that the locomotive and crew can make it over the road safely without plugging the railroad. It's pulling an AMTRAK train. The host railroad sees it as an Amtrak train. It also operates under passenger (applicable Part 238) train rules.

The locomotive should have decent range ~150+ miles without servicing, fuel and H20. It should have enough miles on it after rebuild to break in the bearings and crew. The temperature readouts on the axles are a great accessory. The engine has got to be able to keep up with the flow of traffic. There have been however a few Amtrak steam movements with smaller locomotives for special events. The crew must be capable of safely operating and servicing the engine. 2 hours to shoot the rods is unacceptable unless you're parked for the night.

The steam locomotives that have been running on Amtrak are well maintained and safely operated. The fact that they are no longer an oddity or problem for Amtrak and host ops is a tremendous credit to them and all the people who work to make these trips happen. It was my pleasure at Amtrak Mechanical to work with all the dedicated PV owners and crews of the 261, 1522, 2816, 4449, 700, 3751, 475, 40, and 2472 (unfortunately we never got to run that trip). Let's hope they continue their winning streak. The first incident will be the last. The diesel on the train?..well that's another discussion.

Now I can go back to the pile of Form 4's on my desk. For you guys that I get to deal with now, it's one of the great things I get to do as part of my current job.

Good Evening

Harold Weisinger

HBWX Wrote:
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It was my pleasure at Amtrak
> Mechanical to work with all the dedicated PV
> owners and crews of the 261, 1522, 2816, 4449,
> 700, 3751, 475, 40, and 2472 (unfortunately we
> never got to run that trip).

40? Which 40? I know of 475's trip over Amtrak rails - but which 40 is the one and what trip was that?

Jim Lipnitz
Morrisville, PA
Big Jim Video Productions

I'm guessing the Valley Railroad?

Posted from iPhone

We took the Valley 40 up the NEC(North East Corridor)from Old Saybrook, CT to the Kingston, RI Station re-dedication. I think it was in 1998(?)It was under steam and part of a ceremonial consist. The 40 and a P40 kissed couplers at the ceremony to symbolize the old (station restoration)and the new (electrification). It was pretty neat to see part of the NEC from the cab of a steam engine.

HW

There you have it, from someone who knows this business.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you have an engine....
>
> Amtrak does not certify steam locomotives as it
> does PV's (That's a Private Car for those who
> don't want to look it up). The locomotive is
> approved for a trip or a series of specific trips
> over a season, it does not get the same annual
> rights as a PV to access any Amtrak train. (I
> think we did once discuss putting 800261 on her
> tender though).. Amtrak can re-inspect the
> locomotive for approval before each trip if they
> see fit.
>
> Dan Pluta STILL does a great job performing most
> if not all of those inspections. The locomotive
> inspection builds on the already performed FRA
> inspection. The focus is on running gear, draft
> gear, suspension, brakes and the competence of the
> crew. If there are an excess of wizzing staybolts
> or repairs have been done after the annual, the
> inspector may look at that too.
>
> Amtrak wants to know that the locomotive and crew
> can make it over the road safely without plugging
> the railroad. It's pulling an AMTRAK train. The
> host railroad sees it as an Amtrak train. It also
> operates under passenger (applicable Part 238)
> train rules.
>
> The locomotive should have decent range ~150+
> miles without servicing, fuel and H20. It should
> have enough miles on it after rebuild to break in
> the bearings and crew. The temperature readouts on
> the axles are a great accessory. The engine has
> got to be able to keep up with the flow of
> traffic. There have been however a few Amtrak
> steam movements with smaller locomotives for
> special events. The crew must be capable of safely
> operating and servicing the engine. 2 hours to
> shoot the rods is unacceptable unless you're
> parked for the night.
>
> The steam locomotives that have been running on
> Amtrak are well maintained and safely operated.
> The fact that they are no longer an oddity or
> problem for Amtrak and host ops is a tremendous
> credit to them and all the people who work to make
> these trips happen. It was my pleasure at Amtrak
> Mechanical to work with all the dedicated PV
> owners and crews of the 261, 1522, 2816, 4449,
> 700, 3751, 475, 40, and 2472 (unfortunately we
> never got to run that trip). Let's hope they
> continue their winning streak. The first incident
> will be the last. The diesel on the train?..well
> that's another discussion.
>
> Now I can go back to the pile of Form 4's on my
> desk. For you guys that I get to deal with now,
> it's one of the great things I get to do as part
> of my current job.
>
> Good Evening
>
> Harold Weisinger

That's what I figured. Inspect the engine? Sure. But "certify" it like a PV? Didn't think so.

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's what I figured. Inspect the engine? Sure.
> But "certify" it like a PV? Didn't think so.


Well, yes and no. If you "pass the inspection", i.e. absolutely no defects at all, then you are "good to go". If the Amtrak Inspector writes up a list of FRA Defects and/or other items he wants attended to, then those items and FRA Defects MUST be worked off. The Amtrak Inspector will subsequently return for final verification. Thus, until those FRA Defects are worked off, you are not going anywhere on an Amtrak train.

At least that is how it worked when both the 4449 and the 700 were inspected by Rob Mengels and/or Dan Pluta, some years ago.

I seem to remember that ATSF 3751 had to have it's flanges or wheels turned due to sharp flanges found on the Amtrak inspection. That was before it could go to the Grand Canyon in 2002.

Jim Montague
IRVINE, CA
Train and Nature photo Art