Steam & Excursion > 4014 Builder's Plates

I liked seeing the recent video of 4014 at Cheyenne.

According to the book "A History of Union Pacific Steam," the builder plate on 4014 should be #69585, November 1941. In the video the builder plate shows number 69572, September 1941, which the book lists as 4002's builder plate. (4002 was dismantled November 1961.)

Anyone know what is correct, or if the builder plates may have been switched due to theft of the original plates?

Eddy

Lightning_Slinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I liked seeing the recent video of 4014 at
> Cheyenne.
>
> According to the book "A History of Union Pacific
> Steam," the builder plate on 4014 should be
> #69585, November 1941. In the video the builder
> plate shows number 69572, September 1941, which
> the book lists as 4002's builder plate. (4002 was
> dismantled November 1961.)
>
> Anyone know what is correct, or if the builder
> plates may have been switched due to theft of the
> original plates?
>
> Eddy

See my reply in "I Will Rumble Yet Again" thread posted on May 24th.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/17 17:38 by ut-1.

Referencing the afore mentioned video, I got a kick out of the Batman symbol in the firedoor. Perhaps they're calling for the Dark Knight's assistance in rolling flues?

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

UP 4014 currently carries builder plates reproduced from an original plate from UP 4001, with builder number 69572 and builder date September 1941. The original left side builder plate on 4014 was stolen the first night after it arrived in Pomona in January 1962. The right side plate was cracked with a missing corner piece. After a few years, a local R&LHS member offered his original plate from UP 4001 to serve as an original to have reproduction copies made, and it is these reproduction copies that are currently mounted on UP 4014.

http://utahrails.net/up/heritage-fleet-steam.php#steam4014

Don Strack
http://utahrails.net/

Not to worry. It will have shiny new chrome or gold plates
when it debuts.

Realist Wrote:
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> Not to worry. It will have shiny new chrome or
> gold plates
> when it debuts.

I'm sure the DL already has is order in from the trucker's toy store for chrome plated, and gold plated everything from top to bottom.

CS

I find it interesting when things so easily tracked are stolen. Being so long ago there is a good chance the offending party is deceased. Even if they were in their 20s when the plate was stolen then they are now pushing 80 years old.
If you steal something then you would most likely keep it quiet for your entire life. However once you die and your heirs go to liquidate your estate they may not know a plate is "hot" nore would a buyer.

Makes you wonder what would happen if 4014's real plate ever turned up on eBay or somewhere else some day.

Posted from iPhone

howeld Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it interesting when things so easily
> tracked are stolen. Being so long ago there is a
> good chance the offending party is deceased.
> Even if they were in their 20s when the plate was
> stolen then they are now pushing 80 years old.
> If you steal something then you would most likely
> keep it quiet for your entire life. However once
> you die and your heirs go to liquidate your estate
> they may not know a plate is "hot" nore would a
> buyer.
>
> Makes you wonder what would happen if 4014's real
> plate ever turned up on eBay or somewhere else
> some day.
>
> Posted from iPhone


Funny you mention the possibility that 4014's REAL builders plate could turn up on ebay. Two or three years ago there was a builders plate "supposedly" from a Big Boy listed on ebay. The seller was asking $20,000 for it! YIKES! Needless to say there were several offers and many more that were "watching" but it never sold and after it ran it's time was removed from the site and never again listed. Thing was it looked a bit too new ( to me anyway ) and clean to have come from a Big Boy, but that's not to say it couldn't have. In light of this discussion, I only wish I had gotten the builders number and year from it.

howeld Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it interesting when things so easily
> tracked are stolen. Being so long ago there is a
> good chance the offending party is deceased.
> Even if they were in their 20s when the plate was
> stolen then they are now pushing 80 years old.
> If you steal something then you would most likely
> keep it quiet for your entire life. However once
> you die and your heirs go to liquidate your estate
> they may not know a plate is "hot" nore would a
> buyer.
>
> Makes you wonder what would happen if 4014's real
> plate ever turned up on eBay or somewhere else
> some day.

Worse yet, the heirs may have no idea what it is or
what it might be worth, and simply toss it out as
junk.

Sad but true, and has happened more often than you
think. A number of huge slide and negative
collections have met that fate.

>
> Posted from iPhone

Why can't they just have a few plates cast with the correct numbers, mark them on the back as reproduced replacement plates, and put them on ?  If they get stolen later, no big deal, they would be clearly marked as such. Keep the one original plate in a safe place. Plenty of small foundries around that do bronze casting. Degginger's in Topeka (since about 1900) is still busy, and did plenty of work for Santa Fe back then.

howeld Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Makes you wonder what would happen if 4014's real
> plate ever turned up on eBay or somewhere else
> some day.
>
> Posted from iPhone


If it turned up, and UP requested it, the current owner
would have to return it. While it would be difficult to
prosecute (the current owner could just say he was not aware
it was stolen), under law nobody can retain stolen property.
They have to surrender it. They are not entitled to compensation.

CZ10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> howeld Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Makes you wonder what would happen if 4014's
> real
> > plate ever turned up on eBay or somewhere else
> > some day.
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
>
> If it turned up, and UP requested it, the current
> owner
> would have to return it. While it would be
> difficult to
> prosecute (the current owner could just say he was
> not aware
> it was stolen), under law nobody can retain stolen
> property.
> They have to surrender it. They are not entitled
> to compensation.

What if the Union Pacific gave permission to the original person who was legally allowed on the property to remove & take any souvenirs he so desired? I know that the C&O Railway did just that, at Huntington, WVa. , and if you could safely remove it, no matter what it was, you could have it.

HotWater Wrote:

>
> What if the Union Pacific gave permission to the
> original person who was legally allowed on the
> property to remove & take any souvenirs he so
> desired? I know that the C&O Railway did just
> that, at Huntington, WVa. , and if you could
> safely remove it, no matter what it was, you could
> have it.

Then the removed plate wouldn't be considered "stolen".