Steam & Excursion > Durango & Silverton people pictures

Following up on the traffic increase forecast for the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge posted Thursday on the western board, here are pictures of the crowds at Durango (top) and Silverton on July 19. I called several weeks ahead to make reservations and was surprised to find the trains were nearly sold out. They ran three sections that day. We booked the parlor car on the second section.

We found that western Colorado last summer seemed to be a "happen' place," with signs of a good economy in the small towns from Grand Junction, Monrose and Ouray and over Red Mountain Pass to Silverton and Durango. In addition to the narrow gauge the big driver seemed to be rafting. Everywhere we went we saw rafters and businesses catering to them.

John Bromley - Omaha



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/17 13:13 by Copy19.

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We were in steamboat Spgs last summer and the river rats were everywhere!

Not only is Durango a happening place, it is a happy place too.

Yes, Colorado is booming! Hope you enjoyed your ride on the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad. Great Colorado tourist season as the wildfires were minimal.

Let me follow up a little bit about the D&S vs. C&TS ridership. The 11/09 article on the Western Board has D&S ridership at 157,000 so far this year with a projected total of 195,000 by the end of the year. C&TS ridership for the year (end of May through mid-October) is 38,016 (link below). Now there are obvious reasons for the difference with the two main ones being that the D&S is open all year while the CATS is seasonal, and Durango has many more amenities than either Chama or Antonito. However, one big thing regarding the C&TS is that the 2017 ridership is only 3,431 more than five years ago in 2013 (34,585).

Why just such a small increase? Many observers, including myself, believe that inadequate marketing is the reason. While funds are spent on New Mexico and Colorado advertising (especially during late summer just before the fall color season), very little or none at all is spent on our adjoining states of Texas and Oklahoma. Taos, Angel Fire, Red River and Santa Fe are full of tourists from these two states in the summer and they bring themselves and family, and more importantly money! While the New Mexico economy is in constant recession and Colorado is doing well but has lots of other family vacation attractions, the economies of TX and OK are booming with folks looking to leave the summer heat and humidity for a few days or a week.

One person from Austin commenting on the lack of marketing to those two states puts it this way:

There is NO marketing in Central Texas, Austin, San Antonino, and my friends confirm there is NO market(ing) in Houston.
Very large metro areas where people and families like to get out of the Texas heat and humidity. Many go to New Mexico and Colorado mountains.
Some even ride the train in Durango but when I mention C&TS all that I get is a puzzled look. They have a train also some ask, then I explain.
Don't know about Fort Worth and Dallas. Probably the same thing.
Travel agencies and AAA of Texas needed to be brought up to speed and LOTS of printed brochures need to be handed out.
Brochures at model railroad shows throughout Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana.
...
Booths at train shows also with videos playing.

WON'T EVER HAPPEN THOUGH!
Sad, very Sad!
Patrick

http://www.goatbbs.com/cgi-bin/bbs50/webbbs_config.cgi/noframes/read/7006#7006

For some reason (beyond advertising costs) the bi-state CO-NM commission has rejected continued calls for expanding marketing, concluding that most riders are from NM and Colorado and that is where the most money will be spent! Duh! [The colloquial definition of insanity comes to mind!]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/17 14:21 by Cumbresfan.

Patrick, your post is very informative and educational. I thought it was a bit unimportant to compare actual ridership numbers the other day. D&SNG runs up to 4 trains a day with a longer operating season compared to the 2 daily trains on the C&TS. You hit it on the head with the low ridership gains from 2013-2017. I totally agree with the lack of coverage and effort on the marketing end. However, I do think that the lack of amenities in Chama and Antonito pale in comparison to Durango and may be a hindrance to bringing “well-off” people to the C&TS . In Durango if someone wants to spend the $ for a top-notch hotel and a great meal they can. The limited offerings in Chama and especially Antonito do not offer such. Perfectly fine for most of us as I have experienced in my 4 times riding from either end of C&TS but maybe not enough for the used to the Marriot or Hilton crowd. I also want to add another place the C&TS can do some marketing is Las Vegas metro area where I live. A lot have people I know have heard of the “cool” train ride out of Durango But I’m usually the first to tell them about the train about an hour to the south and east of Durango that is just as cool.
Steve B.

stevelv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patrick, your post is very informative and
> educational. I thought it was a bit unimportant
> to compare actual ridership numbers the other day.
> D&SNG runs up to 4 trains a day with a longer
> operating season compared to the 2 daily trains on
> the C&TS. You hit it on the head with the low
> ridership gains from 2013-2017. I totally agree
> with the lack of coverage and effort on the
> marketing end. However, I do think that the lack
> of amenities in Chama and Antonito pale in
> comparison to Durango and may be a hindrance to
> bringing “well-off” people to the C&TS . In
> Durango if someone wants to spend the $ for a
> top-notch hotel and a great meal they can. The
> limited offerings in Chama and especially Antonito
> do not offer such. Perfectly fine for most of us
> as I have experienced in my 4 times riding from
> either end of C&TS but maybe not enough for the
> used to the Marriot or Hilton crowd. I also want
> to add another place the C&TS can do some
> marketing is Las Vegas metro area where I live. A
> lot have people I know have heard of the
> “cool” train ride out of Durango But I’m
> usually the first to tell them about the train
> about an hour to the south and east of Durango
> that is just as cool.
> Steve B.

Steve,
The two railroads offer totally different experiences (one much more commercial and the other historical) and though the lack of other than basic amenities in Chama and even less so in Antonito is a detriment to the C&TS, there are three close by communities that provide them: Alamosa is 30 minutes north of Antonito and Pagosa Springs is about 45 minutes west of Chama. Also, Taos is not that far south of Antonito. With that information on the C&TS website, those looking for communities with more lively evening activities can plan accordingly.

I prefer the C&T over the D&S, since the latter reminds me too much of a Disney experience. Years ago we did overnight in Antonito when C&T offered that package, boy that's an "interesting" town.

JohnM Wrote:
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> I prefer the C&T over the D&S, since the latter
> reminds me too much of a Disney experience.
> Years ago we did overnight in Antonito when C&T
> offered that package, boy that's an "interesting"
> town.

Indeed it was and is. The former Narrow Gauge Cafe between the RR and the motel is now a pot shop!

Another point to ponder is that in the mid-late 1990's the C&TS was hauling 65-70k passengers, and each year the increases were substantial.

The RR was being operated by a private company (Kyle Rys) who did all the marketing out of their own pocket. Kyle hired a marketing/advertising agency out of Santa Fe for a lot of the promotion.

So....what happened?

I've got some theories, but nothing to bank on...

The C&TS will never approach the ridership of the D&S.

We prefer riding the C&TS, riding out of Chama and staying at one the cabins, gives us options for cooking our own dinner as I am highly allergic to MSG.

Anyway, it seems that the Commission has a closed mind on Marketing.

They want to continue Marketing to the same area. Marketing in Las Vegas, NV is a great idea.

Also, I have spoken to numerous folks in central Texas, Austin, San Antonio, who have ridden the D&S and hardly knew about the C&TS.

C&TS you have a problem! Lack of Marketing!

Where to Market - model railroading shows, have a video of the train ride and lunch in Osier, showing the yards at Chama and Osier; organizations such as AAA of Texas, those who develop vacation plans for travelers; hobby shops, what few are left; possible other organizations and businesses that are in the travel business.

Also where ever there are travel brochures at big service stations/stores/travel centers that have tourist information.

The railroad will need to spend some money on a brochure to sell the railroad and they need someone, maybe a volunteer from the Friends to make sure that these brochures get out to the general public.

But, I things will stay the status quo and the ridership will never increase more than 5-6% from year to year.

Pat
South Austin, TX