Steam & Excursion > New Amtrak Guidelines for Excursions & Private Cars

Here are the new guidelines by Amtrak for future excursions and private car moves

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/Amtrak-Charter-Train-Guidelines-032818.pdf

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/Amtrak-Private-Car-Guidelines-041818.pdf

"Amtrak’s primary objective is to operate its core train service safely, punctually, and efficiently."

None of those things has really worked out for them lately, and I don't think eliminating the very rare one-off charter train is going to help.

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

It does, at least, appear that Amtrak has just slightly softened up their position on some things. Am I reading this wrong?

-Fred-

"Charter trains must operate on existing Amtrak routes." That kills 4449 or SP&S 700 trips to Bend.
"Charter trains must not be one-time trips". Does this mean one-way trips or a one time trip to a destination and back?

wingomann Wrote:
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> "Charter trains must operate on existing Amtrak
> routes." That kills 4449 or SP&S 700 trips to
> Bend.
> "Charter trains must not be one-time trips". Does
> this mean one-way trips or a one time trip to a
> destination and back?


I would read the one time trips to include both one way and round trip versions although I am hoping that I am in error on this.

-Fred-

Rephrasing that basically does the same thing. If you can't have a one-time trip and you can't operate over any track except Amtrak routes, then that rules out almost any excursion you could think up. Is once a year good enough to not be considered a one time thing? What if you ran one trip a year with 611 over some Amtrak route? Amtrak is coming to Roanoke, so that might actually work... But it seems a little bit like giving hard candy to a starving child.

steam290 Wrote:
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> Rephrasing that basically does the same thing. If
> you can't have a one-time trip and you can't
> operate over any track except Amtrak routes, then
> that rules out almost any excursion you could
> think up. Is once a year good enough to not be
> considered a one time thing? What if you ran one
> trip a year with 611 over some Amtrak route?
> Amtrak is coming to Roanoke, so that might
> actually work... But it seems a little bit like
> giving hard candy to a starving child.

Now if Amtrak could expand its network....

This all seems very similar to the ploys used by the freight railroads to get rid of their passenger service back in the '50s. Maybe Amtrak is shooting itself in the foot ON PURPOSE! Why would you quite offering services that make money otherwise?

wingomann Wrote:
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> "Charter trains must not be one-time trips". Does
> this mean one-way trips or a one time trip to a
> destination and back?

If that would be the case, then I would believe the two Amtrak specials in Michigan and excursion with the PRR E8s next month shouldn't be happening at all.

akpsteam Wrote:
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> If that would be the case, then I would believe
> the two Amtrak specials in Michigan and excursion
> with the PRR E8s next month shouldn't be happening
> at all.

Perhaps they're allowing trips to operate if a contract was already in place.

It appears to me that this new policy allows the New River Train to continue, while putting an end to most other charters including practically all steam trips (which are often not on Amtrak routes and would be considered one time events).

Could there be a distinction between an Amtrak charter and, say, a 4449 trip to Bend, OR?  An Amtrak charter might mean a turn-key kind of thing where Amtrak supplies everything, whereas with a 4449 trip to Bend Amtrak is really only providing equipment and not concerned with T&E, OBS crews, or routing.
SR

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> Could there be a distinction between an Amtrak
> charter and, say, a 4449 trip to Bend, OR?  An
> Amtrak charter might mean a turn-key kind of thing
> where Amtrak supplies everything, whereas with a
> 4449 trip to Bend Amtrak is really only providing
> equipment and not concerned with T&E, OBS crews,
> or routing.
> SR


And the liability insurance. And what Amtrak has
always considered to be their right to operate anywhere
they please.

not a very official looking document.

steam290 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This all seems very similar to the ploys used by
> the freight railroads to get rid of their
> passenger service back in the '50s. Maybe Amtrak
> is shooting itself in the foot ON PURPOSE! Why
> would you quite offering services that make money
> otherwise?

Flying on 1 engine and 3 blown tires.

Harlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Amtrak’s primary objective is to operate its
> core train service safely, punctually, and
> efficiently."
>
> None of those things has really worked out for
> them lately, and I don't think eliminating the
> very rare one-off charter train is going to help.

Really? They are just in the phase of implenting changes are you are judging on lack of results already?

Give it time.

BoilingMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could there be a distinction between an Amtrak
> charter and, say, a 4449 trip to Bend, OR?  An
> Amtrak charter might mean a turn-key kind of thing
> where Amtrak supplies everything, whereas with a
> 4449 trip to Bend Amtrak is really only providing
> equipment and not concerned with T&E, OBS crews,
> or routing.
> SR

The likelihood is that no distinction will be made. Exposure to risk away from their network is still present.

Take these recent comments from their VP's comments on Capitol Hill as quoted in TRAINS Magazine:

"Some past charter moves, he said, “involved us running one-off routes off of our core network onto various host railroads, and frankly, exposing the company to new operating challenges and safety risks.” Amtrak’s goal, he said, is only to offer these services on its current routes “where we can use equipment that we are confident in and the requirements on our end are manageable, not a distraction..."

Important highlights: "exposing the company to new operating challenges and safety risks" and "equipment we are confident in."

The current operating environment for private cars will soon ensure that virtually the only equipment available for specials will be Amtrak's own equipment.

We have operated business car Tioga Pass for almost 15 years behind Amtrak trains. During that time, the only thing that made it feasible was to do almost all of the work ourselves. I have put in thousands of hours over the years to keep the car running. Even without paying for a lot of labor, the car seldom covered all its costs. We never made money on it, but we weren't usually losing a lot on it either. A few good paying trips each year paid most of the costs and we had a lot of fun on other one-off trips that didn't have to make as much money. Tioga Pass has moved something like 400,000 miles behind steam, diesel and electric locomotives in all but four or five states and six Canadian provinces.

But, now we are left with little prospect of making the kinds of trips we have in the past. The trips that paid the bills are gone, and we are seriously looking at parking the car. Many of our fellow car owners are facing the same dilemma. Pretty soon, it won't matter if an organization wants to run a special - the cars they might have used will all be parked somewhere and no longer current with their inspections. I know of one car that has already left Los Angeles, two more that likely soon will leave, and four or five that are seriously considering it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/18 12:24 by llafro.

llafro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The current operating environment for private cars
> will soon ensure that virtually the only equipment
> available for specials will be Amtrak's own
> equipment.
>
> We have operated business car Tioga Pass for
> almost 15 years behind Amtrak trains. During that
> time, the only thing that made it feasible was to
> do almost all of the work ourselves. I have put in
> thousands of hours over the years to keep the car
> running. Even without paying for a lot of labor,
> the car seldom covered all its costs. We never
> made money on it, but we weren't usually losing a
> lot on it either. A few good paying trips each
> year paid most of the costs and we had a lot of
> fun on other one-off trips that didn't have to
> make as much money. Tioga Pass has moved something
> like 400,000 miles behind steam, diesel and
> electric locomotives in all but four or five
> states and six Canadian provinces.
>
> But, now we are left with little prospect of
> making the kinds of trips we have in the past. The
> trips that paid the bills are gone, and we are
> seriously looking at parking the car. Many of our
> fellow car owners are facing the same dilemma.
> Pretty soon, it won't matter if an organization
> wants to run a special - the cars they might have
> used will all be parked somewhere and no longer
> current with their inspections. I know of one car
> that has already left Los Angeles, two more that
> likely soon will leave, and four or five that are
> seriously considering it.

And that right there is the sad summary of the situation

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