Steam & Excursion > 300 psi in 4014

I'm trying to wrap my head around the thinking of a particular group of people in these forums.

First, this group of people (including Hotwater, Realist and others) said 4014 couldn't be restored.  Then they said, it couldn't be converted to oil.  They said it wouldn't pass the FRA inspection.  Then they said it wouldn't be finished in time.  They said it couldn't run on most of the network.  They said Ed Dickens was going to get sued and/or fired.  They said he was restoring the locomotive too far in depth to complete in a timely manner.  

After all these false claims (many of which I skipped because there were just so many).

Now, this group is saying the locomotive is not running at 300psi at track speed.  That it's being pushed by the diesel all the time. 

Does this group of people never tire of being wrong?   They've been beaten on every front yet they continue to spew nonsense.  They are a group of sad and lonely has beens that are sidelined and not happy.  I for one, am tired of it.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/19 19:06 by PM1225Steam.

I would be careful as to what you say there sir.

Out

...And you expected to accomplish what by posting this? === === = === JLH

While I am hesitant to even poke the well-beaten horse, I should point out that not too long ago, I saw an offical SteamUP video about 3985 posted in 2013-ish crowing how, "No parts from 3985 will be used in 4014's rebuild like some foamers on Trainorders will say."

Uh, yeah, I guess the tender doesn't count as a part? Where's THAT haughtiness now?

My point being, there's been trash-talking and things being proven wrong on the pro-UP steam side, too.

Furthermore, the general consensus toward's the current steam crew's mistakes has been, "Let bygones be bygones." I think saying stuff like this might be a good way to torpedo any good will.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/19 20:17 by DRGWMark.

PM1225Steam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm trying to wrap my head around the thinking of
> a particular group of people in these forums.
>
> First, this group of people (including Hotwater,
> Realist and others) said 4014 couldn't be
> restored.  Then they said, it couldn't be
> converted to oil.  They said it wouldn't pass the
> FRA inspection.  Then they said it wouldn't be
> finished in time.  They said it couldn't run on
> most of the network.  They said Ed Dickens was
> going to get sued and/or fired.  They said he was
> restoring the locomotive too far in depth to
> complete in a timely manner.  
>
> After all these false claims (many of which I
> skipped because there were just so many).
>
> Now, this group is saying the locomotive is not
> running at 300psi at track speed.  That it's
> being pushed by the diesel all the time. 
>
> Does this group of people never tire of being
> wrong?   They've been beaten on every front yet
> they continue to spew nonsense.  They are a group
> of sad and lonely has beens that are sidelined and
> not happy.  I for one, am tired of it.
>
> Solution:  IGNORE ALL POST THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 4014,  and you won't be so tired.  Discussion groups are for discussion, and raking issues over the coals.  Sometimes it gets a tad lively, but its the nature of the beast.  Exercise choice.

Do not confuse Boiler Pressure, per se, as any indicator of a boiler’s steam generating capacity.
10 or 15 light cars does not constitute a “a load” on the steam generating capacity of the 4014’s boiler/ firebox combination.

The only way to assess steaming capacity is with a trailing load reflective of the freight trains BB was built to haul, on a daily basis.  Then, you’ve got a true measure of the firebox/burner’s  capabilities..

In today’s World, 4014 senses the load behind the tender as if it were dragging a caboose down the tracks.
The draft up the stack is dependent on the weight (mass) behind the coupler,  not the throttle/ valvegear settings on an un-loaded boiler. It is the draft that determines firebox temperatures and the steaming capacity. It is the ‘load’ restraining the the speeds, that determines the draft.  The “train” determines the drafting rate; with few or no cars, the draft is little affected by the crew’s efforts
(with controls in the cab) at trying to build a hot fire.

So, until a credible, sustained load is dragged at 45-per, or better, pay no attention to the static/low-demand boiler pressure readings. Safeties popping-off, while standing still, is no big thing, and it reflects poor firebox management.

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/19 03:51 by wcamp1472.

If you step back and look at the big picture this is a good story. This giant railroad decided that it would invest the many millions needed to bring back to life one of its iconic machines from yesteryear and send it on a systemwide goodwill tour flying the corporate flag. Thankfully so far it has gone to plan and the universally positive huge media following has justified the investment.

  All the other relatively petty issues are of no long term importance. The history books will not record the names of those involved good or bad, but rather will concentrate on the main event of the magnetism evidenced by a giant piece of living history. 

   I suggest we all enjoy the show, overlook the minor issues and applaud UP every chance we get.

   Ross Rowland 

Thank you Mr. Ross Rowland!OB

I've enjoyed the years long debate on both sides of the issue.  Others may not share my view.  Nobody says we have to read ALL the posts.  Just read the stuff you like.

Andy

UNP is $177.14 per share today which satisfies my need for steam. $300 per share will take a few more years.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UNP is $177.14 per share today which satisfies my
> need for steam. $300 per share will take a few
> more years.

It's only truly satisfying if you owned and sold (take profits). Otherwise, it's the dividends that matter.

I know you are trying to be funny, but I've seen no direct correlation between UNP stock price and UP 4014 activities.

PM1225Steam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does this group of people never tire of being
> wrong?   They've been beaten on every front yet
> they continue to spew nonsense.  They are a group
> of sad and lonely has beens that are sidelined and
> not happy.  I for one, am tired of it.

People can be wrong, and people outright lie. Count me as a "naysayer" since I listened to the critics. However, I went trackside to see the 4014 for myself. HotWater went out to see the 4014 in July when it ran toward Illinois, so your "sidelined and not happy" comment is unwarranted.

Did you go trackside to see the 4014 yourself, or are you projecting your "loneliness" because you are only following the 4014 vicariously? There are some merits to what the 4014 critics have said, and in fact, that helped me choose chasing location and strategy as I've said so in another thread where I posted my video.

In fact, I didn't post clips that made the 4014 look bad, so where's your thanks for not bursting your bubble? :-)
 

I want to throw my full support towards Ross and others that are positive. For the record, I whitnessed Ed punching it while they sanded the flues, the engine leaped forward and everything was "normal". Why can't we all just understand that, from Ed's perspective, there is no reason to work the engine a great deal a 1,000 miles or more away from home on the very expensive mainline. And can't we all simply agree that these tours have been a HUGE sucess?? 

At two days, my firsthand experience is a small subset of the available data.... BUT:

At North Little Rock, there was easily more than 1,000 people out on a weekday to see #4014 the whole time we were there.  As much as working on and operating the locomotive, Ed's job is that of a P.R. man.  While I was there, he put a great face on the U.P. for everyone from the media to little kids and a retired MoPac steam engineer.  It was fun watching him write "excuse letters" for a couple of kids who were brought by their parents to see 4014 in lieu of being in school.  Those kids went away VERY happy.

The next day, I didn't see a single crossing that didn't have people waiting for the train.  At every tiny town we visited, locals came out to see the train; some with picnic blankets or lawn chairs.  As evidenced on George's shot at Dyer, the residents at some towns gave a rousing applause after the train came barreling through town.

I know of no other way that a great big rolling railroad can generate goodwill like that.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

Well., I have to say that over the years being here on T.O. I've learned a great deal from Hotwater, Wes, and Ross and many others concerning steam operations. Yeah, sometimes we get loud about a particular disucssion, but at the end of the day I think everyone here on this part of the forum wants the same thing......to see any steamer put back in service succeed. I've followed what's been going on with  4014 since day one, from the arrival of the steam crew at Rail Giants in 2013 until today.  I planned on being in North Little Rock last week, but couldn't make it because of last minute personal things I had to take care of. That's as close as 4014 will ever get to where I live ( Columbus Ga. . NS territory  ) Hopefully next year I'll have the chance to go see it up close and experience it first hand. Ed has his faults, but heaven knowns I'm no box of candy! LOL!! Let's just support the UP for doing what was for decades deemed "IMPOSSIBLE"  and support of the tireing work that Ed Dickenson, the steam crew and contractors are now doing in keeping 4014 on the move for many years to come......


And like most railfans, I grew up thinking I'd never see a Big Boy back in steam!  WAS I EVER WRONG ON THAT ONE!                                    



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/19 16:36 by apollo17.

Agree 100%

Posted from iPhone

For what it's worth, I got an unbiased, non-railfan report on the public response to 4014's tour. An old friend that was my boss in 2007 ripped me a new one for taking a day off over some stupid train passing by. Today, out of the blue, he called me from a service stop somewhere in Kansas. Had to tell me all about this big, awesome train that they waited an hour for. I asked about the mood and control of the crowd. He said the crowd was big and very excited, but the crew did a good job with it as far as he could tell. He called again after it departed and added that "they ought to plumb tear gas into them steam blasters on the front" to keep people from standing too close.

Posted from Android

Just say thanks that a railroad would spend the money and people to run a steam locomotive some 60 to 70 years after they were retired and continue to spend bucks so the public can see and hear a "great big black thing that smokes".

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At two days, my firsthand experience is a small
> subset of the available data.... BUT:
>
> At North Little Rock, there was easily more than
> 1,000 people out on a weekday to see #4014 the
> whole time we were there.  As much as working on
> and operating the locomotive, Ed's job is that of
> a P.R. man.  While I was there, he put a great
> face on the U.P. for everyone from the media to
> little kids and a retired MoPac steam engineer. 
> It was fun watching him write "excuse letters" for
> a couple of kids who were brought by their parents
> to see 4014 in lieu of being in school.  Those
> kids went away VERY happy.
>
> The next day, I didn't see a single crossing that
> didn't have people waiting for the train.  At
> every tiny town we visited, locals came out to see
> the train; some with picnic blankets or lawn
> chairs.  As evidenced on George's shot at Dyer,
> the residents at some towns gave a rousing
> applause after the train came barreling through
> town.
>
> I know of no other way that a great big rolling
> railroad can generate goodwill like that.


"Please excuse little Johnny from school today ... he went to see a steam locomotive."     Gotta love it!

I hope UP utilizes this great resource they've put together. Have Dickens talk to groups ... build some interest where there was little ... he's the right man for the job.

Back here in the northeast, anyway ... we have many of these "community colleges" that offer two-year, career-orientated degrees in Mechanical Engineering Technology, among other majors. Connect those students with Dickens and 4014/844 ... let them get up close and personal with some old school physics at work. Fun and interesting.

Be nice, anyway.

Jim Lee
Lake Hopatcong, NJ

Well, I for one thank the UP for expending permission/money over the years to continue to have steam on their roster.
A) they kept 844 on the roster making it the only UP steam locomotive never retired from their roster.
B) Allowing many steam locomotives to be placed on display in the various locations, i.e. 3985, which provided a group of employees as we were to bring it back to operating order.
C) And I thank the UP for continuing this philosophy and taking on such a task of restoring the 4014 back to service.

When we took on the 3985 project we initially did not receive funding but rather their permission to put our time into this locomotive.
And if we think about it the 3985 was in service from January 1981 to late 2010 or almost 30 years or 14 years longer than it was in regular service.
I was glad to be a member of that project and eventually a member of the operating crew and I thank the UP for that as well.

So live on UP 4014 and the UP Steam Crew. You have a life ahead of you and hopefully a long one if so graced by the UP.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY